Is midi really worth it?

[DAS19]

I have a cheap 100 dollar 49 key midi controller but it takes a long time to load and my computer has trouble keeping up. Not that much trouble but enough to be a problem for me to talk about it. I have Steinbergs: The Grand and it sounds alright but ive played a yamaha electronic piano and I think those sound and feel very real. Plus I dont have to load Cubase to play.

Do you think spending 600 dollars is worth it or stay with midi. Oh yeah and midi takes forever to export that makes me mad. I have to step away from the computer and come back or else I would lose my mind.

Thanks for your help,
Dave

[ssscientist]

What you need, my son, is a different VST host.

One that doesn't take a whole lot of time to boot up and one that renders nice and quickly.

For this job I use and recommend Jorgen Aase's EnergyXT --- LINK. If you download it without paying the shareware fee you can save your work but not reload it.

And in answer to the question in your title, only if you believe in it. If you don't it will rise up and choke you when you are sleeping.
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[DAS19]

Can I still use cubase? How much is it? I dont get it what exactly is it?

[noisewreck]

It's not the MIDI. It's the MIDI instrument. Just like a $30 plywood violin is gonna sound like a $30 plywood violin and will never sound like a Guarneri, the same way an el cheapo 49 key POS is gonna sound like an el cheapo 49 key POS compared to say... oh... I dunno... a $5000 Kurzweil K2600XS?

BTW you can use EnergyXT INSIDE Cubase too.

Try 4Front Piano . It's free, and extremely lightweight, and surprisingly realistic.

Also, you can run it through 4Front for while you're playing, and after the MIDI file is recorded, just change it from 4Front to The Grand and you'll have the sound you want.

Or run it through both for a layered sound.

[Mindset]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

It's not the MIDI. It's the MIDI instrument. Just like a $30 plywood violin is gonna sound like a $30 plywood violin and will never sound like a Guarneri, the same way an el cheapo 49 key POS is gonna sound like an el cheapo 49 key POS compared to say... oh... I dunno... a $5000 Kurzweil K2600XS?

BTW you can use EnergyXT INSIDE Cubase too.

HMMMM I kind of disagree... Because all a MIDI keyboard really doing is sending regular small bits of data into the computer, that tells the computer what note was pressed. It's up to the computer to interprete it correctly & play that sound that you assigned to it. I have a 'cheapo' keystation49, and it works perfectly fine in Reason 3. If I used some POS sample or sound, it will sound like the POS sample or sound regardless if it's a $5k keyboard, or a $5 dollar midi controller. ALSO, you can't compare the Kurzweil K2600XS to a MIDI controller. The Kurzweil K2600XS is a stand-alone product with MIDI capabilities. A straight up MIDI controller keyboard does 1 thing, controls the software through hardware. When you buy a midi controller, you usually get no sound that comes with it, and you can't just hook up speakers to the keyboard either.

That said,

Are you using a MIDI connection or a USB connection? What kind of software? What kind of computer (specs)?

MOST of the time, it'll be software related. You should check the MIDI section of the Steinberg software your using. BTW There's a lot of people that is using the steinberg: the piano and are having the SAME problem you are. I do not think it's because they are using the 'same' keyboard as you, but I think it's software related issue... Here's something I JUST searched up just to help you.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/173.html
Those people on there state the same problem, and some other problems of Steinberg: The Grand

http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtop...4649606fc8c6f3
Same thing...

Also on the computer part, I took this off the Steinberg.net website...

Random Access Memory
For Steinberg applications, nothing less than 512 MB RAM will do. However, all up-and-running applications and the operating system access the main memory at the same time, so installing more RAM is highly advisable. You may find that even sizable main memory acreage of 1 GB won’t suffice to deliver satisfactory system performance for larger projects. The reason for this is that VST instruments and audio projects load audio samples into the main memory and read them there. If you have don’t have much RAM installed, less material can be buffered there, and more data must be handled via the slower hard disks. This means access takes longer. Under normal conditions, Windows 2000 and Windows XP can use up to 2 GB RAM and Mac OS X and Windows XP x64 can address up to 4 GB in connection with Steinberg’s current Cubase/Nuendo versions. More RAM definitely does good things for your system’s overall performance.................

Hard Drives
As a rule, Steinberg products may be employed in connection with every hard disk found in contemporary computers. The hard drive’s capacity to enable elaborate projects involving many audio tracks and serve as a delivery medium for sample content destined for VST instruments that work with disk streaming technology hinges upon the following factors:

Rotational speed: Let’s start with laptops whose hard drives are rated for 4,200 RPM (revolutions per minute; (abbreviated rpm, RPM, r/min, or min-1): This RPM rating has a direct influence on how many audio tracks the hard disk can record and play simultaneously. Expect no miracles from these hard disks because the risk of bottlenecks constricting data transfer is quite high. Use 4,200 RPM hard drives for small audio projects only. Some manufacturers equip their laptops with 5,400 RPM hard disks, and they deliver acceptable performance in terms of the audio track count. If you’re looking for professional-grade performance for audio systems running scores of tracks, you will find what you’re seeking in later-model laptops sporting 7,200 RPM hard disks. Another option for attaining sufficient hard disk performance is to choose an external hard disk offering good data throughput and connect it via FireWire or USB 2.0.

If you’re in the market for a desktop system, avoid hard disks that run slower than 7,200 RPM. Hard disks rated for 7,200 RPM normally deliver the data throughput required to enable elaborate audio projects with many tracks and at the same time furnish sample data to VST instruments. Bear in mind, though, that this is one of those cases were more is indeed better. For example, S-ATA (see below) 10,000 RPM hard disks can certainly help prevent throughput bottlenecks. Another strategy for boosting audio data throughput entails using several hard disks. Experience teaches that partitioning makes good sense: Dedicate one hard drive to the operating system and installed applications, and the other to audio data. If you wish to make extensive of use of sampler plug-ins, you could even devote a further hard disk exclusively to sample content delivery.

Cache: Hard drives come with a buffer memory called a cache. It also influences hard disks’ access speed. In the main it can be said that the bigger the cache, the better the hard disk’s capacity to handle large amounts of data. Caches sized 8 MB and more have proven very useful for applications in the audio field. Laptop hard disks’ caches are generally substantially smaller; on standard desktop computer models, hard disks’ caches usually range from just 2 to 4 MB. If you wish to use the hard disk for streaming sample content, be mindful of its cache size. Along with rotational speed, cache size has an immediate impact on the amount of individual samples you can load at a time, say, while VST instruments (for example HALion) are being played.

It's basic knowledge, but a lot of people overlook the things they think that's not a problem. Like the DAW itself.

[DAS19]

The only difference in midi keyboards is key weight and extra things you dont need. Getting a 5000 dollar midi controller will do nothing to make the sound better.

[noisewreck]

Ahhh... sorry I didn't catch the part where it was just a controller. Even so, it comes to both quality samples, and how well those samples are mapped/programmed in the sampler. Kurzweil does a great job of this. You can get decent software that would do good job at piano as well, for example Ivory. About the only other issue when dealing with soft-pianos, or any VSTi for that matter is latency, which can potentially mess with your performance.

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by DAS19

Can I still use cubase? How much is it? I dont get it what exactly is it?

It's a nice, small VST and VSTi friendly host program with audio and midi sequencing capabilities. And noisewreck is correct that there's a VST plugin version that comes along with the package.

Noisewreck, this is not a controller question but a VSTi 'time-to-load' question and also a 'time-to-render' question. Both have to do with running the VSTi in Cubase.

DAS19, try this. Download Reaper --- LINK --- and work with it for a while with concentration on your Steinberg piano VSTi and see - once you're finding your way around easily - if you miss anything that Cubase offers or if you're satisfied with Reaper. Reaper gets fantastic chatter around here, I use it myself and since it's uncrippled shareware you COULD use it for as long as you like without paying the $40 shareware fee.



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[warble2]

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

Try 4Front Piano . It's free, and extremely lightweight, and surprisingly realistic.

Also, you can run it through 4Front for while you're playing, and after the MIDI file is recorded, just change it from 4Front to The Grand and you'll have the sound you want.

Or run it through both for a layered sound.

I realize the 4Front Piano is free, but listening to the raw demo mp3 at the Website, I was not really impressed. I also realize they state it's a different type of piano sound, and I guess it would have it's place if you were looking for something different - not an authentic, clean piano sample sound.

Originally Posted by warble2

I realize the 4Front Piano is free, but listening to the raw demo mp3 at the Website, I was not really impressed. I also realize they state it's a different type of piano sound, and I guess it would have it's place if you were looking for something different - not an authentic, clean piano sample sound.

But what I was saying, is if he's experiencing latency playing through Steinberg's The Grand, in real time, he could just use 4Front as something to play through while recording the MIDI.

Once the MIDI file is recorded, he could just run it through The Grand and have the sound he wants.

[warble2]

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

But what I was saying, is if he's experiencing latency playing through Steinberg's The Grand, in real time, he could just use 4Front as something to play through while recording the MIDI.

Once the MIDI file is recorded, he could just run it through The Grand and have the sound he wants.

There would be no chance of latency with the 4Front Piano?

I guess I'm to perfectionist for this concept - I need to hear the actual piano sample I'd be using for the track to be inspired at all while recording the midi performance. But if ones computer can't keep up, that goes out the window.

Originally Posted by warble2

There would be no chance of latency with the 4Front Piano?

I guess I'm to perfectionist for this concept - I need to hear the actual piano sample I'd be using for the track to be inspired at all while recording the midi performance. But if ones computer can't keep up, that goes out the window.

I agree, I would much rather hear the sound I want as I'm playing, but I figured maybe the 4Front might be a good alternative if his computer just can't keep up.

I would think the latency would be a lot lower on something like 4Front. It's extremely small and lightweight, and uses almost no CPU/RAM.

But that explains why it doesn't sound nearly as good as The Grand.

[mikemorgan]

Originally Posted by ssscientist

in answer to the question in your title, only if you believe in it. If you don't it will rise up and choke you when you are sleeping.
.

I don't care who ya' are, that there's purty funny

[DAS19]

...

Thanks for everyones help im looking into it.

[VGreen]

Danny,

I checked out your soundclick page and want to say your Beatles medley is very well done. I'd love to be able to play like that. Just one observation, I feel the melody in "Yesterday" has an off note in the "all my troubles seemed so far away" section (also the "I'm not half the man I used to be" section). Try using F# in the first syllable of "trou-bles" and also on "half" instead of F natural. Also try speeding it up a little. But as I said, you've got a great talent there.

V