Here's a strange question

[jmarques]

Reverse Noise Gate

I search for this for about half hour, but I can't find anything about it relavent to my cause.

Does anyone know of a vst plugin noise gate that works in reverse. Meaning instead of cutting off sound that dips below the threshold. It would chop off sounds from above the threshold.

Prehaps even an option of taking the excess sound and reversing itself onto the waveform.

Does something like this exist as a vst plugin.

I think it would be something interesting to experiment with.

[TelePaul]

what would that even do?

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by jmarques

Meaning instead of cutting off sound that dips below the threshold. It would chop off sounds from above the threshold.

.

Wouldn't that be called a limiter?

[dementedchord]

in a way a limiter kinda sorta does that but not really... you actually want to stop all sound when it's above the threshold???? to what end??? i cant personally see any thing to be gained (snicker) here....

[jmarques]

I intented to use it as a way to make it easier for a program like drumagog or apptrigger2 to filter/find drum trigger points in fully arrange music.

I know that drumagog is only design to replace drums on simple drum track sounds only and would have a hard time searching for cymbals and hats in a full mix with with other instruments.

So far I can pull most of the kick and snare triggers out of a regular mix, but I have a hard time getting to the hats and cymbals since they tend to be mask be alot of different instruments. At times I can get a some of them with compression/eq, but alot of are hidden under kick and snares hits.

I've figure if maybe I can inverse a peak waveform onto itself it might help clean up the signal a bit. I know this is a bit far fetch, but I would like to at least try it.


Ok you can start rotfl now...thinking why are you bothering?

[jmarques]

Actually I been thinking of maybe trying to make it myself since I don't think there is something like that out right now.

The only trouble is my programming skill are fairly weak and the I keep get lost in the details of the vst software development kit.

Ahh maybe all get it one day.

[justanotherjo]

Originally Posted by jmarques

I intented to use it as a way to make it easier for a program like drumagog or apptrigger2 to filter/find drum trigger points in fully arrange music.

I know that drumagog is only design to replace drums on simple drum track sounds only and would have a hard time searching for cymbals and hats in a full mix with with other instruments.

So far I can pull most of the kick and snare triggers out of a regular mix, but I have a hard time getting to the hats and cymbals since they tend to be mask be alot of different instruments. At times I can get a some of them with compression/eq, but alot of are hidden under kick and snares hits.

I've figure if maybe I can inverse a peak waveform onto itself it might help clean up the signal a bit. I know this is a bit far fetch, but I would like to at least try it.


Ok you can start rotfl now...thinking why are you bothering?

If I understand what you are trying to do, you really seem to want to push the limits of Drumagog. I've experimented with taking a single track of a full drum kit, copying it to several tracks, and then isolating each drum or cymbal. It's been challenging, and I've had modest results. I find it easier to use Drumagog as an enhancement tool in this type of situation rather than as an all out replacement tool. I can't imagine trying to work around the other instruments as well.

That being said, have you tried using filters and equalizers to remove as much of the non-cymbal elements from the track as possible? You really only need to isolate a very narrow band of the cymbals frequencies to trigger a replacement sound. It doesn't really even have to sound all the natual, as you will be covering it up in the final mix. You might have to run a VST equalizer before Drumagog in the signal chain, as, correct me if I'm wrong, the send effects come before the equalization in Cubase. I don't think Drumagog's equalizer/filter is powerful enough to do what you want to do.

I wonder, also, how well compression can work in this process. Drumagog uses volume differences to trigger hitpoints. If you squash everything, aren't you making it more difficult for Drumagog to pick up changes in volume? Thus making it more difficult for Drumagog to know when to trigger samples. You're muddying the waters, so to speak. Compression would do nothing to isolate frequencies.

Joe

[jmarques]

Originally Posted by justanotherjo

If I understand what you are trying to do, you really seem to want to push the limits of Drumagog. I've experimented with taking a single track of a full drum kit, copying it to several tracks, and then isolating each drum or cymbal. It's been challenging, and I've had modest results. I find it easier to use Drumagog as an enhancement tool in this type of situation rather than as an all out replacement tool. I can't imagine trying to work around the other instruments as well.

Everything I tried was to make it easier for a program like drumagog to pickup basic trigger points. Basically making several copies of a waveform and then isolating for a particular frequency/sound. Doing this I can get 70-80 % accurracy with snare and kick drums.

I'm just experimenting to see how much information I can get out of a full mix waveform. I don't exactly know what I would do if I could get 100% results it's more for me to see if it can be done.

Originally Posted by justanotherjo

That being said, have you tried using filters and equalizers to remove as much of the non-cymbal elements from the track as possible? You really only need to isolate a very narrow band of the cymbals frequencies to trigger a replacement sound. It doesn't really even have to sound all the natual, as you will be covering it up in the final mix. You might have to run a VST equalizer before Drumagog in the signal chain, as, correct me if I'm wrong, the send effects come before the equalization in Cubase. I don't think Drumagog's equalizer/filter is powerful enough to do what you want to do.

Yes this works to extent except you get alot of harmonics from other sound masking most of the hats/cymbals creating alot of false trigger points. It would almost be better if i could use a waveform again itself thats' why I was thinking of this reverse noise gate thing. Would it work? I don't know.

Originally Posted by justanotherjo

I wonder, also, how well compression can work in this process. Drumagog uses volume differences to trigger hitpoints. If you squash everything, aren't you making it more difficult for Drumagog to pick up changes in volume? Thus making it more difficult for Drumagog to know when to trigger samples. You're muddying the waters, so to speak. Compression would do nothing to isolate frequencies.

Surprising you would think this, but I was experimenting with waves c1 compressor and running it with a really low threshold hold like -40dbfs and 4:1 ratio. I was surprising able to get the high frequency end stuff really pumping. After looking through spectrum analyzer I notice some of the music I was listening the volume level of high frequency sound is a lot lower and then the low frequency sound.

Once I got the sound pumping I cut as much of the lower frequency as possible before effecting more of the higher frequency sounds.

[scrubs]

I think the Floorfish gate has a "listen" feature that will let you hear what is being gated and may work for what you want.