2 quick questions.

[TelePaul]

Hey guys, 2 quick questions.

Firstly, I'm in the middle of a project, and I noticed in the project window that its says im recording in 16 bit...but I'm using an ASIO 24 bit driver. Which is correct?

Second, why is there a VSt folder in the Steinberg directory, and a VST folder in the Cubase directory? Im moving my VTs into the STeinberg Directory.

Thanks guys.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Hey guys, 2 quick questions.

Firstly, I'm in the middle of a project, and I noticed in the project window that its says im recording in 16 bit...but I'm using an ASIO 24 bit driver. Which is correct?

Second, why is there a VSt folder in the Steinberg directory, and a VST folder in the Cubase directory? Im moving my VTs into the STeinberg Directory.

Thanks guys.

I'll byte. If it says you are recording in 16 bit then you are recording in 16 bit.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

I'll byte. If it says you are recording in 16 bit then you are recording in 16 bit.

And how do i fix this? Is it down to driver selection?

[RezN8]

Did you set it in the project window?
Project/Project Set Up
Set the "Record Format" to 32 bit float.

Sorry I can't help with the second question. I dunno.

[TelePaul]

it can go a shigh as 32? Sorry to labour this, but I thought I could either have 16 or 24.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

it can go a shigh as 32? Sorry to labour this, but I thought I could either have 16 or 24.

There is no point to recording in 32 bit float.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by NL5

There is no point to recording in 32 bit float.

hey NL5! I take it ya read up on my predicament, any ideas on how to record in 24 bit?

[noisewreck]

Actually, depending on the driver of the soundcard (and most by now work this way) there is a performance benefit in working in 32bit float. It may not make a difference in sound as all internal processing is done at 32bit float anyway, but by also recording in 32 bit, you put less strain on the processor. Even 24 bit recording still uses all 32 bits of the pipes in the CPU registers, so the CPU will need to pad them with extra 0s, when flipping to 32 bit recording this padding is done at the soundcard level.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by NL5

There is no point to recording in 32 bit float.

For most people that are just screwing around, there's probably no point to recording in 24 bit.

The Cubase vst folder contains the stuff included with Cubase. It does'nt matter where you put your plugins. You might want to create your own shared VST folder for easy access. For example C:\VST.

[NL5]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

when flipping to 32 bit recording this padding is done at the soundcard level.

At the very least this part is not true, and I really doubt any of what you posted is correct.

TelePaul - Got to the project menu, and select project setup.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by NL5

At the very least this part is not true, and I really doubt any of what you posted is correct.

TelePaul - Got to the project menu, and select project setup.

Thanks NL5! You the man!

[RezN8]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Thanks NL5! You the man!

Hey wait!!! I'm sapposed to me "the man"! I was the one who told you how to change your recording format in the first place . (sorry, I'm on new meds and they are making me a little edgy ).

The reason why I said to change it to 32-bit float is based on this info:

When you record with effects you should consider setting the record
format (bit depth) to 32 Bit Float. This is done in the Project Setup di-
alog on the Project menu. Note that this isn’t required in any way –
you can record with effects in 24 or 16 Bit format should you so like.
However, there are two advantages to 32 Bit Float format:
• With 32 Bit Float recording you don’t risk clipping (digital distortion)
in the recorded files.
This can of course be avoided with 24 or 16 Bit recording as well, but requires more
care with the levels.
• Cubase SX processes audio internally in 32 Bit Float format – record-
ing in the same format means the audio quality will be kept absolutely
pristine.
The reason is that the effect processing in the input channel (as well as any level or EQ
settings you make there) is done in 32 Bit Float format. If you record at 16 or 24 Bit,
the audio will be converted to this lower resolution when it’s written to file – with pos-
sible signal degradation as a result.
Note also that it doesn’t matter at which actual resolution your audio
hardware works. Even if the signal from the audio hardware is in 16 Bit
resolution, the signal will be 32 Bit Float after the effects are added in
the input channel.

Anyway, you're welcome.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by RezN8

Hey wait!!! I'm sapposed to me "the man"! I was the one who told you how to change your recording format in the first place . (sorry, I'm on new meds and they are making me a little edgy ).

The reason why I said to change it to 32-bit float is based on this info:

When you record with effects you should consider setting the record
format (bit depth) to 32 Bit Float. This is done in the Project Setup di-
alog on the Project menu. Note that this isn’t required in any way –
you can record with effects in 24 or 16 Bit format should you so like.
However, there are two advantages to 32 Bit Float format:
• With 32 Bit Float recording you don’t risk clipping (digital distortion)
in the recorded files.
This can of course be avoided with 24 or 16 Bit recording as well, but requires more
care with the levels.
• Cubase SX processes audio internally in 32 Bit Float format – record-
ing in the same format means the audio quality will be kept absolutely
pristine.
The reason is that the effect processing in the input channel (as well as any level or EQ
settings you make there) is done in 32 Bit Float format. If you record at 16 or 24 Bit,
the audio will be converted to this lower resolution when it’s written to file – with pos-
sible signal degradation as a result.
Note also that it doesn’t matter at which actual resolution your audio
hardware works. Even if the signal from the audio hardware is in 16 Bit
resolution, the signal will be 32 Bit Float after the effects are added in
the input channel.

Anyway, you're welcome.

Thats cool and thanks, you are also 'the man'. So...theres 16 bit, 24 bit AND 32 bit float? There was I thinking i could only use 16 or 24. Hmmmm. Are tehre drawbacks of 32 bit float?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Thats cool and thanks, you are also 'the man'. So...theres 16 bit, 24 bit AND 32 bit float? There was I thinking i could only use 16 or 24. Hmmmm. Are tehre drawbacks of 32 bit float?

File size.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by TravisinFlorida

File size.

Bigger file size, gotcha. I dont keep many projects after I'm done with em anyways though. Thanks.

[RezN8]

I wonder if that's the only disadvantage, though. After I clearly heard the differences between 16 bit vs. 24 bit, etc. -- I never gave it much thought.

When I first starting using 32-bit, I couldn't understand why I had so much headroom. I guess that's the biggest advantage for me.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by RezN8

When you record with effects you should consider setting the record
format (bit depth) to 32 Bit Float. This is done in the Project Setup di-
alog on the Project menu. Note that this isn’t required in any way –
you can record with effects in 24 or 16 Bit format should you so like.
However, there are two advantages to 32 Bit Float format:
• With 32 Bit Float recording you don’t risk clipping (digital distortion)
in the recorded files.
This can of course be avoided with 24 or 16 Bit recording as well, but requires more
care with the levels.
• Cubase SX processes audio internally in 32 Bit Float format – record-
ing in the same format means the audio quality will be kept absolutely
pristine.
The reason is that the effect processing in the input channel (as well as any level or EQ
settings you make there) is done in 32 Bit Float format. If you record at 16 or 24 Bit,
the audio will be converted to this lower resolution when it’s written to file – with pos-
sible signal degradation as a result.
Note also that it doesn’t matter at which actual resolution your audio
hardware works. Even if the signal from the audio hardware is in 16 Bit
resolution, the signal will be 32 Bit Float after the effects are added in
the input channel.

When you have 24 bit converters, doesn't that limit the recording to 24 bit resolution? When you change Cubase to 32 bit float format does that make your 24 bit converters clip less?

[noisewreck]

Originally Posted by NL5

At the very least this part is not true, and I really doubt any of what you posted is correct.

Hmmm. Perhaps I am not reading this right. It seems the padding is done regardless. So, NM!

Aardvark Q-10 Pro Manual

There are several ways for a program to interpret 24 bit audio
data. The Q10 does this by left justifying 24 bit data in a 32 bit word. In some
audio programs, you will have to specify this particular 24 bit format in order for
it to work. Depending on the program, it may also be referred to as "24 bit
unpacked", "24 bit left-justified" or "24 bit alternate".

Terratec EWX 24/96 Manual

The drivers support another, special data transport format, called “32 Bit unpacked”.
For the curious: audio data streams are sent over the PCI bus to the main memory. The
PCI bus operates on 32 “channels” (32 Bit). So a PC usually pays special attention that
all of it’s resources get used for the task at hand, and so for the transport of 8 Bit
audio files they are bundled into fours (4 x 8 = 32), bei 16 Bit and 16 Bit data into
bundles of two (2 x 16 = 32) so that they can be sent along (diagram top).
With 24 bit audio material the situation becomes more complicated to process: all of a
sudden there are “only” 24 harmonious bits there - then 8 are “missing” completely.
The “24 Bit packed” method solves this in the following way: the CPU (lets say a
Pentium) splits the 24 Bit stream into multiples of 32 (diagram middle). That costs
power and doesn’t have to be.
Using the “32 Bit unpacked” method the rest of the 24 data-bits are filled with zeros
by the hardware and sent by the driver as an appropriate 32 Bit packet. Most of the
software on the market today supports this resource saving method (diagram bottom).

[noisewreck]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

When you have 24 bit converters, doesn't that limit the recording to 24 bit resolution? When you change Cubase to 32 bit float format does that make your 24 bit converters clip less?

No, but it minimises the possibility of clipping [i]within[/w] Cubase. Plus, it's still makes it easy on FX specially stuff such as reverbs and delays to cope with extremely small numbers.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

No, but it minimises the possibility of clipping [i]within[/w] Cubase. Plus, it's still makes it easy on FX specially stuff such as reverbs and delays to cope with extremely small numbers.

Thnaks alot Noisewreck, it sounds pretty handy, i'll give it a shot and see how it goes, I only have 512 mb of ram, so any saving of processing power is handy.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

No, but it minimises the possibility of clipping [i]within[/w] Cubase. Plus, it's still makes it easy on FX specially stuff such as reverbs and delays to cope with extremely small numbers.

This is only relevant if you insert effects in the input buss. If you don't record with effects, there is no advantage.

Maybe some people do, but I never print a reverb (or anything else) on a track that I am recording. I record it dry, then put the reverb on during the mix. The only exception that I can think of is using some sort of amp simulator plugin, but I would still just record the dry signal and monitor the simulator.

Recording in 32 bit doesn't minimise the possibility of clipping within cubase, because all of the math inside cubase is 23 bit float no matter what the file is saved at.

The CPU cycles that are saved by having the soundcard add the zeros don't matter much when you take into account the fact that the hard drive now has to write 1/3 faster to keep up. You probably have more extra CPU cycles than you do hard drive throughput.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by Farview

This is only relevant if you insert effects in the input buss. If you don't record with effects, there is no advantage.

Maybe some people do, but I never print a reverb (or anything else) on a track that I am recording. I record it dry, then put the reverb on during the mix. The only exception that I can think of is using some sort of amp simulator plugin, but I would still just record the dry signal and monitor the simulator.

Recording in 32 bit doesn't minimise the possibility of clipping within cubase, because all of the math inside cubase is 23 bit float no matter what the file is saved at.

The CPU cycles that are saved by having the soundcard add the zeros don't matter much when you take into account the fact that the hard drive now has to write 1/3 faster to keep up. You probably have more extra CPU cycles than you do hard drive throughput.

Uhmm....is 24 bit okay? My 2 quick questions were'nt so quick.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Uhmm....is 24 bit okay? My 2 quick questions were'nt so quick.

24 bit is preferable.

[RezN8]

OUCH! Now my head hurts!!!

If what you're saying is correct, Fairview, then I have no use for 32bit float. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Farview

This is only relevant if you insert effects in the input buss. If you don't record with effects, there is no advantage.

Maybe some people do, but I never print a reverb (or anything else) on a track that I am recording. I record it dry, then put the reverb on during the mix. The only exception that I can think of is using some sort of amp simulator plugin, but I would still just record the dry signal and monitor the simulator.

Recording in 32 bit doesn't minimise the possibility of clipping within cubase, because all of the math inside cubase is 23 bit float no matter what the file is saved at.

The CPU cycles that are saved by having the soundcard add the zeros don't matter much when you take into account the fact that the hard drive now has to write 1/3 faster to keep up. You probably have more extra CPU cycles than you do hard drive throughput.