Behringer Mini-review

[The Axis]

I bought a Behringer UltraGain MIC2200 today. ($189) So far I am pretty impressed. Very natural sounding, no unusual noise, quite "transparent and accurate". Using earthworks mikes. I really like the adjustable low-cut and the parametric EQ. It allows me to knock down a "room boom" frequency before going into digital.

For comparison, i also have (in order of how much I like them, from best to worst:
M-Audio DMP2: Sounds great, but mechanically very cheap.
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro: Great bargain workhorse: a little harsh.
ART Tube MP: Adequate if you aren't very picky. very "toobey" saounding. Not very accurate, but a great special effect.

So far I like the Behringer the best because of its additional useable features. I have to set the low-cut a little lower than the DMP2 or the Mackie allow, because I tune a little low. The Parametric is a great feature that should be on all preamps. Hope the reliability is there !

Rick

[bvaleria]

Hmmmm.... something wrong here - you're running $700+ mics thru a $190 mic pre, and happy about it????

You feelin' ok?????



Bruce

[The Axis]

Yeah, i'm amazed too. I made sure that I could take it back if i didn't like it. (Guitar center) As you can see from my other preamps, I'm the world's cheapest SOB and like to move up gradually on the equipment $$. I didn't spring for the earthhworks mikes until I had tried lots of cheaper ones too.

My theory is that electronics is so much easier to build than the electro-mechanical interface of a microphone. Also, the op-amp and electronic components industry is so much bigger than microphones that high quality components are readily available and cheap.

The other nice thing: I just checked, and of my current preamps, the Behr. is the only one that maintains full 48 V on the phantom power when driving the earthworks mikes (they drag the mackie down to about 44 Volt and the DMP2 down to 40 Volts) Maybe that is a significant part of it. I was planning to get something more expensive (an earthworks) specifically for the voltage issue, but I figured $189 was worth a gamble. So far so good. Talk to me again in a month and we'll see.

Rick

[MISTERQCUE]

Yo'Bruce,It;s me again! Behringer does indeed manufacture
SOME decent equipment. As you know,I own the Auto and Multi
Comps,The Ultra-Bass and the DSP1000.I wouldn't suggest to
ANY-1 to purchase ALL Behringer products,but the few I own
does serve the purpose well. You do bring up a valid point
as far as running hi-end mics thru a $190 pre,and I never used or auditioned the UltraGain,but I wouldn't be surprised if it does opens one eyes due to it's performance!
The 2 MAJOR things that totally suck about Behringer is:
A)World's Worst Mixers
and
B)World's 2nd Worst Customer Service!
(ranks right behind the I.R.S.!!)
Peace
UNOWHO!

[bvaleria]

I was only semi-serious.... I have no experience with Beringer's outboard pres to make any kind of judgment, although I'm un-inclined to get anything from them based on some of the crap I DID see!

But if it works... that's all that counts!!



Bruce

[vicevursa]

Mr.Q, How bad are the Beh mixers? Should I be expecting something bad... I happen to own one of their mixers MX802A. I might be clueless about these things. Help me out. And for what it's worth, I like my DSP1000P.

[MISTERQCUE]

Hey vice if you do a "SEARCH" on this BBS you will notice
that I have posted WAYYYY too many posts about "WHY BEHRINGER MIXERS Suck!!!!!!"

[regebro]

Originally posted by MISTERQCUE
Behringer does indeed manufacture SOME decent equipment. [...] the Auto and Multi Comps,The Ultra-Bass and the DSP1000.

And the patch-bay is good too! Stay way from the Ultramizer though! Useless piece of crap! (Well, OK, the spatial enhancement worked, and the enhancer wasn't totally useless. But the ultrabass and compressor functions are totally useless).

[dobro]

My first reaction was identical to Bruce's - what are you doing running Earthworks mics through $190 gear? I know you like the sound, but have you tried the Earthworks through a dedicated pre at a higher level than an ART Tube? (sorry, don't recognize the DMP2 - is that a pre?) You might like the sound even better through an ace pre.

[The Axis]

Yeah, Dobro:
The DMP2 is an M-Audio 2-channel pre. About $200. It has excellent specs, and it does sound very good, but it is really a flimsey piece of crap mechanically.

I had heard so many good reviews of the Mackie, that I was actually a little dissappointed when it sounded a little harsh and "electronic"...not transparent and natural. So that is the only reason I keep trying other PREs. $189 wasn't a big gamble. By far, the biggest noticeable improvement has been in microphone
selection. The PRE-tone seems very minor in comparison. But I probably will get a "Premium" pre when I can afford it.

My only purpose for the mini review is to point out that the Behr. unit seems to compare very favorably with others in its price class. Many reviewers have claimed that the Mackie is comparable to *anything at any price*, so if the improvements are that minimal and subtle, I am in no hurry to shell out the cash for a very minor improvement. My own talent is the biggest limiting factor right now !

Rick

[lunatic]

Axis,

Are you having any issues getting a good, strong, signal from the MIC2200 into your setup? I'm having a hell of a time. The MIC2200 shows the Output Level at 0, but my Delta 1010 Control Panel, and Vegas Audio, show levels waaaaaaaaaaaay below that.

If you don't mind, see this following post for information:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...hlight=mic2200


Thanks,
Brad

[OldGrover]

Just wanna put my $0.02 in - I have an like the Ultragain as well. I've mostly used it to do recording directly to DAT when using room mics for jam nights, but it has worked very well for that

Generally I pair it with a coupla APEX 420s (which I'm also very happy with)

[lunatic]

Ol'Grover,

So you have no issues with levels from the MIC2200 into your PC? Any recommendations on things I could try?

For comparison, I have 2 DMP2s and tried my mics through them. There were no line levels issues at all! Nice strong signal. In fact... it was almost too strong

-B

[The Axis]

Coincidentally, I have two DMP2s also !
The DMP2s are definitely hotter than the Behr, but as you point out, they are almost too hot. I have to keep them down around (an imagined) 1.5 out of 10 setting, and the slightest motion of the dial causes big changes in level.

But, I don't really have any problem with the Behr either. It is not as hot, and I usually try to maximize both the input gain and the output gain so that I am just hitting red LED's at ABSOLUTE peaks. But the max out put seems hot ENOUGH under those circumstances. It is rated at something like +21 dBu, so that should be good enough for most sound cards, but I never actually measured it. I am using pretty hot mikes (10 mV/Pa to 30 mV/Pa) so if you are using dynamic mikes, that may be the problem. They don't have as hot a signal to begin with.

If you need to get more gain, there are various things you could try:
1. Hotter mikes
2. Carefully crank the input & output gains to just-sub distortion.
3. Use CH1 as a preamp for CH2 (if you have a low-output microphone...this loses on channel of functionality). Again, be sure to adjust levels carefully so that overs don't occur at any stage.
4. Maybe what you already have is ENOUGH, even though it is below the maximum your card can withstand. I don't now what the specs of your card are. I am using a VS 1680, but I use a Midiman A/D converter and go into the SP/DIF input. I always can overload it if I try, so I never have a problem getting enough signal strength.

Peace,
Rick

[LongWaveStudio]

Bruce,

the ultra-gain is actually fairly impressive, should be alittle more expensive. ive only used it once for testing but it was really better than i expected!

[h kuhn]

ultragain 2200 here too. Compared to the art mp it sounds very clean and transparent, and the eq comes in very handy sometimes. no problems to drive the inputs of my hoontech dsp 2000. Yesterday I recorded violin with piano acompainment, 2 mc012 going trough the ultragain direct to DAT. maybe i can post a short piece of the recording, i think the sound quality is amazing for the little money i had to invest.
I realy abused the behringer, using it for a film project and on location work, it had to stand a lot of vibration and mechanical shocks, humidity and temperature changes, no problem.
Axis, what music are you recording? I have just ordered two eathworks SRO and wanted to buy a dmp2 for them, but now i wonder if I should get another Behringer....
Harald

[The Axis]

h kuhn:
I am recording myself on fingerstyle acoustic guitar almost exclusively; although I also play electric and I break that gear out occasionally.
I was lucky to snag two DMP2s when MARS cleared them out. Now, I trade off between the DMP2s and the Behringer hoping that I will notice a definite superiority of one over the other, but I never can really tell a clear-cut winner. The parametric of the behr. is an advantage, but I have noticed that sometimes it creates some low-level noise if the higher frequency range button is in (using at about 7 kHz.) It doesn't create noise at the lower freqs. So right now, I am back to the DMP2s...they are hotter.
I just ordered another SR71. They are on closeout at earthworks . This gives me a pair of QTC1s and SR71s.
The Qs are more naturtal sounding, but the SRs are very close, and give better noise rejection from extraneous sources in my sometimes noisey neighborhood around my bedroom studio. I'll bet the SROs are also virtually indistinguishable from the QTC1s !

Good luck,
Rick

[tubedude]

Hmmm, dual preamps too. Good price if its decent.
Does it outperform the Mackie preamps? Outperform the ART?
I hear it compares identically to a Neve...

Just joking about that last one...

The thing I have trouble with is all these dual preamps with single tubes. Someone explain that to me please. Makes no sense. How can it be?

[The Axis]

A single 12AX7 (and similar tubes) are actually dual stage tubes. It is commonly used to provide two gain stages to a single signal, but can also be used to provide two separate gain stages to two individual signals. (look it up if you don't believe this The disadvantage of this is crosstalk between channels. The crosstalk is in the vicinity of -80 dB (I think) so as a practical matter it is below what most people can hear.

I don't know how it compares to the Neve, but I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro sitting right beside it that I never use anymore.

I had an ART Tube MP that I sold...it sounded like a special effect, not a preamp. I suppose that if you like that particular special effect, then it is a "good" preamp.

Peace,
Rick

[tubedude]

I kinda figured maybe that was the way, but I assumed there would be tons of crosstalk. I was gonna go find one of these things and run input into A and listen to the output of B just to see what would happen. Guess I dont need to now
Its really decent huh? I'm interested in that, and thier monitors.
Word has it the Behringer preamp is BETTER than a Neve.

[Leeking]

any of you uses a Joemeek VC3Q before?

how does it fair comparing to the MIC2200?

[The Axis]

When I bought my Behr., the GC salesman was trying to discourage me and was promoting the VC3Q, so I was listening to it at the same time, under near A/B conditions.

I don't want to disparage the Meek, but it does have a characteristic sound of its own, and my personal preference is to avoid equipment that has a "sound" in favor of very neutral sounding equipment that captures the sound of the thing you are recording. The Meek sounded good, but it wasn't for me. You may want to go check one out.

Rick

[Leeking]

Axis,

BTW, how do you A/B the mic pres?

do you use a mic through them and listen to the monitors's output? or do you get them recorded?

Argh, now I am torn between these two.... The Joemeek comes with a pretty good compressor but the MIC2200 has 2 inputs.... hmmm, wish I could test out these two... sigh~

[jgourd]

I just picked a MIC2200 at GC for $100 even. All I plan to do with it is drive a DAT recorder in situations where my big 16 track rig is not going to be needed.

[jgourd]

I spoke too soon. The MIC2200 had a defective channel. I now have an Apex 107.