Test

[Amorican]

Hey guys. I just recently bought a Crate 50 Watt, 2 12" speakers Tube Amp. It sounds amazing. Now, when I go to mic it like I did my solid state. The recording comes out terrible--Thin, weak, distorting...

I am using a SM-58 aimed down at the right speaker. I have tried moving the mic around and back. I have tried changing levels on mixer and multitracker. Nothing is working. I have tried fooling with volume on the amp. Is there something i'm missing? This is my very first Tube Amp ever so...

I also have a Shure KSM-27 and that mic sounds bad with the amp as well. I've gotta be doing something wrong.

Help?

[zacanger]

...we're seeing your posts.

[Dogbreath]

Test..........icles.............

Test...............icles..............

yup, everything seems fine. Carry on sir....

[ecktronic]

There both kidding. Your post aint there dude.

Eck

[Amorican]

Alright...I put in my question...sorry...haha...

[Dogbreath]

What's your signal chain? How are the tracking levels? I'm not really sure what's up and am just throwin out some ideas to help narrow it down. Any other details you can think of?

[Rokket]

1. Let the tubes warm up before you try tracking.

2. Also get the mic in between both speakers. They are both adding to your sound, so you need to track them both.

3. And turn up the volume and turn down the gain. Tube amps sound best when you push them. See suggestion #1 though...

[Amorican]

Maybe I can help with some detail...

I am putting my Shure SM-58 up the right speaker and it is hooked into a 4 track mixer and the mixer is hooked into a fostex 8 track digital recorder. Using that same method with my old amp I could get a really solid tone and sound. I know my stuff is terrible by your guys standards but it's been with me for a years now ever since I got into recording...It has never let me down--I can always get it to sound kick-ass.

But this amp almost sounds way to close and gainy but at the same time really thin and no balls. So I move the mic back a bit. And all over...Turn the amp up an down..still the same pretty much bad result.

I keep everything on 0 (or centered) on the mixer and use the gain as the volume control. That's how I've always done it and it has always worked for every instrument. I record acoustic guitars, electric guitars, shaker, tambourine, Djembe, keyboard. I can get um all to sound very impressive and good for a dumb amature. I have always been told by many folks that they can't believe the quailty I get outta my stuff. I pride myself on that.

I am all self taught with recording and I've always figured out my own problems...this is bugging me 'cause I can't now...I'm just a young 21 year old goof full of the love of music and the art of recording. I got ALOT to learn I realize.

Help any?

[FALKEN]

-try the other speaker
-try pointing the mic up at the speaker, instead of down
-try the mic in several other positions
-try putting the amp up on a chair (away from the ground)
-try turning the gain down (unless you are already recording clean)
-try turning down the reverb
-try pulling the mic out from the speaker a bit

also make sure your strings aren't shot. same with the preamp tubes. if it sounds good in the room, and your chain normally sounds good, but in this case it doesn't, I would have to vote mic or mic positioning.

[Amorican]

I've done everything you said Falken....I already tried most of it and my amp is always elevated anyways.... I know how to get a good sound...at least I DID...this blows....

How can I playw ith this shit.

[FALKEN]

well I have a crate vintage club 50 and I've gotten some killer tones out of it on recording. what about the tone is it you don't like? could you describe the problem? looks like you got some weather up there in buffalo, huh?

[Amorican]

Dude....I think we have the same amp...Crate 50 watt...D series or soemthing...maybe I can get this to sound good...

I will try cranking it tommrow when I have time to and really try to get a tackle on this...I havent cranked it full blast....This is the only thing I can think of.

Oh and dont even start on the weather! haha.

[Amorican]

I jsut tried it cranked LOUD put the mic all over...still fooling with all the knobs trying to get a sound...this is really bad.

I hooked up my old amp and got a perfect sound right away....its a solid state but whys that such a big difference. And it is broke so it shuts itself off.

[NYMorningstar]

Use less distortion than you think you should. More than likely you are killing the sound with the gain staging.

[ido1957]

Record a sample of the Solid State amp and a sample of the Tube amp. Paste them together - say 30 seconds of each so we can hear what the results are. Use the exact same equipment/settings on both (except the amp). Also post the amp settings (gains, tones etc)......Hopefully that will give us some more to work with....

[mrface2112]

you say it sounds great in the room while you're playing right?

then why not put the mic right where your ears are when it's sounding great?

if you do that and it still doesn't sound great, then you've either got a problem with your recording chain.......or the amp really doesn't sound that great in the room and your ears (and the volume) are fooling you.


cheers,
wade

[Amorican]

Ok first off I can't thank you guys enough for the help...really apprciate it...Now I have some good news and bad news...

I hooked up the shure ksm-27 and the sm-58...I have pretty much just been experimenting away with placement and everything. The 58 is closest to amp. the 27 is furthur away aimed at amp. I stood where it sounded good and put the mics that way. Ear fatigue is def. setting in...I'm taking a break now...And all the drinking last night isn't helping, haha..but I gotta get this sound!

Good news is I am getting a lot better tones and overall sound. I have been trying everything as far as turning knobs on the fostex multitracker and mixer as well...gains, volumes, etc...I am also changing the amp setting around--just trying to get it the best I can. So tweaking all over basicly.

I have gotten to the point where I am getting some close sounds to what I want but they are too quiet. I try turning anything up and it starts to gain a lil' too much and sounds bad. Any thoughts on this?

And a few more questions...How LOUD do you really have the amp when you do it?

Is it ok to have both mics pretty far away too, if it helps me get a good sound?

[Amorican]

I tired just the condesnor mic but had it on 0 db instead of the -15db...I moved it way back so it wouldnt get dameged. It's a lot louder...but it still cracks up and stuff. I have the gain at 0 on the mixer. God im trying everything.

[Amorican]

I have the 58 few inches away from grill where I found a sweet spot area ( i marked it with tape)...I put the condensor bout 6 feet back on -15db in a sweet spot area...or the best I could find at least. I didn't use any gain knobs on mixer...this time i just turned the volumes up instead. This has yielded the best results yet..but still not exactly how I want it...

Still any thoughts welcome!

[Amorican]

I have an mp3 here for anyone that wants to hear me playing on amp...so you can hear what im doing wrong or whatever. its better if i can show you than just talk.

[ecktronic]

Ok. I would suggest taking your amp head into the monitor room with you and micing up the cabinet in the recording room.
This way you can hear exaclty what the mic is piking up and you can adjust the EQ etc while playing. If you cant get a good sound that way then I would get another amp.

Eck

[Amorican]

I've tried everything....Even the 2 mic thing then phase shifting deal..i dont even know if i did the phase thing right. But i been trying just one mic just everything!

my ears are shot from doing this 3 days and I gotta take a break.

[Amorican]

Well I tried using both Shures. I put on behind to capture bass and it seems to much better.

But what mics should I use and where? 58 up front? Condensor in the back?

[TelePaul]

sorry this isnt helpful, but that govt mule song on your myspace just kicks ass. Uhmm you mentioned you were running through a 4 channel mixer? Did you try a different channel?

[Amorican]

Yeah great song man! Yes I tried other channels as well...