I Want A New Rompler !!!

[mark4man]

Yo...

Couple of years ago now I upgraded from a Roland JV-1010 to an XV-5050. I've never liked the damn thing. Why ??? The pianos all sound like they have the "birdies"...these weird upper beat frequencies that chirp & tweet & rattle around like pennies in an empty jar. Sometimes you want to get up from the studio chair & answer the phone...but it's not ringing!

Anyway...I need a replacement; & was wondering:

What's the best sounding synth module out there ???

I need something w/ world-class piano sounds, but nice bass & drum programs wouldn't be bad, either.

Thanks,

mark4man

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by mark4man

Sometimes you want to get up from the studio chair & answer the phone...but it's not ringing!

Now, c'mon.

Be honest.

How much did you pay for that lil' funny right there?

Cause it IS funny.

Real funny.

In fact, TOO funny for one of our members to have thought of all by himself.

And calling sample playback synths 'Romplers'? What a scream.

You are one funny, funny man.











(I hear good things about Kurzweils.)

.

[Cazzbar]

I'm also trying to find that piano sound I personally like... I currently have a 10 year old Roland A90 and there's one deep and bright piano sound on there I love, every note effortlessly cuts through the heaviest of rock mixes in recordings or a live gig... but it is starting to sound a little dated, maybe, so I thought if I bought something newer, it would be better! (this is where everything has gone horribly wrong...)

I bought a Roland XV2020, and the pianos on there are no better than a $50 Casio keyboard from your local electronic store... hopelessly thin, weak, very dark and uninspiring. I then bought Roland's "SRX7 Ultimate Keys" expansion, a big collection of previously released keyboard sounds thinking there must be at least one nice piano there! (nope ). Then came the "SRX-11 Complete piano", a brand new set of samples! obtained from the finest grand etc... jeesh, it's the same tone as the 2020 original! just maybe a little more depth and refinment.. but I still have to visually check if I'm using the original or the new expansion I then took home the Roland RD700sx for a trial... same piano as the SRX11 !! With a very ugly muddy middle section, I took it to a band practice and it was a disaster. I was being stared at constantly for my dodgy sound and then had to play everything in the upper two octaves just to cut through the mix. The middle section is just a dead duck.

I then thought I'd just buy a Yamaha P90... but it's no real improvement over my current A90 sound... so I'm just throwing my cash away (again).

But then I played on the Roland Fantom X8... finally! This is the sound I've been looking for, sharp and distinct brighter sounds up and down the keyboard... I have to drag myself off of it in the shop.

Only problem is the Fantom X8 weighs a ton and is basically a home workstation. But there is a Fantom XR rack unit sound module (and I will be able to reuse my dodgy SRX expansions).

So am I gonna be buying another Roland unit after being so badly disappointed by them in the past?!.... if I do there's also the option of spending even more cash on some samples I've heard good things about created by that William Coakley chap... a fool and his money in the search for that sound

[cortexx]

dare i mention the fantom with an expansion card ? i just bouight an X8 and lets just say i didn't get much sleep last night ..........



today is going to go so slowly

[Cazzbar]

is the expansion for a better piano sound? if so what expansion are you using? what do think of the original fantomX piano (think I use patch 001 in the shop)

(sorry for so many questions if you haven't had much sleep!)

[cortexx]

last night was my first play with it and the grand piano that it comes with is pretty decent , ( having said that I personally like electronica and trance so an authentic piano is not really a priority ) .

There is an expansion board http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=385

that specializes in giving good piano sounds ( not that i have it BUT they did had it installed in the store when i took my test drive and it sounded pretty good to me ).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Cazzbar

I then took home the Roland RD700sx for a trial... same piano as the SRX11 !! With a very ugly muddy middle section, I took it to a band practice and it was a disaster. I was being stared at constantly for my dodgy sound and then had to play everything in the upper two octaves just to cut through the mix. The middle section is just a dead duck. But then I played on the Roland Fantom X8... finally! This is the sound I've been looking for, sharp and distinct brighter sounds up and down the keyboard... I have to drag myself off of it in the shop.

Forgive me for I have to be brutally direct, but your comments are truly contradictive. No, I don't work for Roland, and couldn't care less to impose my own musing over yours. Far from it.

But RD700sx is even by product hierarchy obliged to have finest piano sample and exclusive for this machine. Because the main product segment 700 belongs to Stage Piano and the rest of the matches (great matches) in the box, are only supplementary.

Roland's decision, for top model in this segment to have exclusive piano is well known fact. This piano can't be found in X8. Although this is qualitative debate of highest trial, for both are invitation of superlatives and there is no reason why you, me or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't find any other piano from Yamaha,Kurzweil…. more suited to our own taste. But the extent of contrast you offer in your explanation between 700sx and X8, makes absolutely no sense !

Some (multi-sampled grand ) presets, for example offer such deep layer and dynamic power that even without control of resonance and ambi leaves everyone I've know owns 700sx, without words. 700sx has one finer layer of more dynamic and slightly more resolution and refinement from C4 and treble response compared to X8. This is refined virtue some will treasure and recognize other wont. No problem. But your over-dimensioned disparity in sound between sx&X8, makes absolutely no sense. Even older RD models could not objectively cast such difference you are suggesting between X8 and latest Fantom as such. Mind you that this entire post rotates around the main superior grand !

Everything else in my own book of preferences would also voyage to X8, because it clearly has more power and matches. But RD700sx still holds the best piano in Roland's present offer.

Are really sure that you have actually played RD700sx? This 700sx : http://tinyurl.com/yy3xrx

Also what sort of genre and piano sound you require for your work?

[Cazzbar]

Originally Posted by cortexx

There is an expansion board http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=385

that specializes in giving good piano sounds ( not that i have it BUT they did had it installed in the store when i took my test drive and it sounded pretty good to me ).

Thanks for the reply, that's the srx-02 expansion, I've got the srx-11 which is meant to be the improved version but it just just doesn't suit my style, personally I think default fantom piano sound is far superior. Wish I wasn't after that great piano patch 'cus all the other sounds in these synths are amazing to my ears. (hope you don't have to carry the X8 around with you much!)

[Cazzbar]

Originally Posted by Anthony

...but the extent of contrast you offer in your explanation between 700sx and X8, makes absolutely no sense !

Are really sure that you have actually played RD700sx? This 700sx : http://tinyurl.com/yy3xrx

Also what sort of genre and piano sound you require for your work?

Yep, that's the one I had in my house for a week and took to a band practice. I couldn't believe after spending £1300 I could be so disappointed... to me it was just like playing the SRX-11 expansion on my XV2020. I just play in a melodic rock band, Dire Straits style if you will... I'm not a trained pianist (and I know when anybody of any training plays any piano it sounds amazing!) but the middle frequency notes, for my taste, were very dark and blurred, and almost with a slight mega-phone effect which made it sound horrible. I went for the E.Q. and DID manage to remove some of these problems by attenuating around 600hz, but then the piano sounded thin and not worth the money I spent.

I've been happily using my A90 for 10 years, and when I turned up at band practice with my new piano (still through a PA) I had nothing but complaints from the other members in the band... they could only hear notes in the upper two octaves and that I was making the songs sound 'muddy'... they kept asking me for find a decent sound! quite demoralising after spending that amount of money!

As I say, I then played piano patch 001 on the Fantom X8... and it's a completely different animal ! Difference between night and day, I promise you. I went to the Roland site and they said they've sampled a completely different piano than the SRX-11 Link (which I feel is very similar to the RD700SX) And I've also read the Fantom piano was intended to be much brighter than the SRX-02 and SRX-11 expansions because of complaints that these pianos were "too dark".

I'm still desperately nervous in taking home the Fantom XR sound module though because you may be right, and they may be putting some Jedi mind trick effect through the monitor speakers I'm playing the Fantom X8 through in the shop!! Although they appear to be study monitors, and I've played loud! And it's exactly the crisp, bright, distinct sound I'm looking for as opposed to the blurred, dark, mega-phoned distorted load of rubbish in the SRX-02, SRX-11 and RD700SX!

ymmv

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Cazzbar

Yep, that's the one I had in my house for a week and took to a band practice. I couldn't believe after spending £1300 I could be so disappointed... /Snip/ for my taste, were very dark and blurred, and almost with a slight mega-phone effect which made it sound horrible.

Pardons for the late reply.

Well you clearly explained your reasons. Since it is a matter of personal taste and requirement I have nothing to debate here. Why do I have feeling that you would be much happier with some EIV with loads of different pianos. There are so many superb libraries and due to sad rotation of interest to hardware samplers. You could get this all … for virtually nothing. Great sounding samples that would fit nicely for what you are looking for, not to mention, you can really TUNE things with EIV

Even if you are pleased with your setup, something to consider as extra. Financially irrelevant if you consider how cheap this things are going today.

Originally Posted by Cazzbar

I've been happily using my A90 for 10 years, and when I turned up at band practice with my new piano (still through a PA)

There is one thing that bothers me with A90. I liked A80 action better, but lets be honest, there is nothing light about A90. It is robust, looks powerful and certainly was not introduced as economical range. Al things considered, they really made awful mistake with that sad micro display.
Only heaven knows why they employed such ridiculously small display?

[Cazzbar]

Is the EIV a soft synth thing? I've done a quick google and I'm not none too wiser to be honest... I've heard good things about soft synths but wanted a keyboard/module for gigging... will never take my laptop out with me!

Yep, the A90 is sure a heavy beast, 10 years of carrying that babber around is the #1 reason why I want to change it... but the piano sound works really well through a PA and mixes great with other instruments. The display is fine to me and real easy to use, it's basically 4 big numbers for each zone and the volume, transpose, reverb etc... all have their own buttons for direct access. I can happily adjust anything in a live environment (unlike my fiddly Fantom rack) and truly the best thing is the ability to programme in a set list, the luxury of just pressing the 'next' button on stage to call up the next song instead of desperately searching for the required patch. Why isn't this a common feature on all synths! A lot have a 'favourites' option where you can set up banks of 8 sounds or something but doesn't function like the A90 one-press chain. All these reasons is probably why I will still lug the heavy A90 around instead of a light controller and a rack module for live work.

[SonicAlbert]

As far as I know, the piano sound in the Fantom XR is the same one as found in the rest of the Fantom series. I've owned both the SRX 02 and 11 and neither is completely satisfying. The SRX-11 plays a little more naturally than the SRX-02 and sounds okay on it's own, but when you play with acoustic instruments it doesn't blend well.

You might want to try a Yamaha piano sound, like an S90 or whatever the current model is.

[erichenryus]

Originally Posted by mark4man

Yo...

Couple of years ago now I upgraded from a Roland JV-1010 to an XV-5050. I've never liked the damn thing. Why ??? The pianos all sound like they have the "birdies"...these weird upper beat frequencies that chirp & tweet & rattle around like pennies in an empty jar. Sometimes you want to get up from the studio chair & answer the phone...but it's not ringing!

Anyway...I need a replacement; & was wondering:

What's the best sounding synth module out there ???

I need something w/ world-class piano sounds, but nice bass & drum programs wouldn't be bad, either.

Thanks,

mark4man

are you open to using software sampler? because NI Akoustic piano sounds pretty wicked good. There is also a bosendorfer 290 software piano that's amazing as well. I don't think either would lend well to playing live. For my live setup I use the stock piano in fantom xr. But I think all the leading top end workstations have pretty nice sounding pianos. Motif, Fantom, Triton all have about the same capabilities imo. All are limited by the amount of memory they can allocate to the samples. In order to step up you have to allocate a serious amount of RAM to the task. 64 or whatever megs just doesn't do it like a gig does!

which makes me wonder if anyone has ever tried to use the full 512 sampling ram on the fantom to recreate a piano?

And I have to disagree with one of the previous posts that the RD700 is Roland's best piano. The fantom X series sounds a million times better to my ears.

[Cazzbar]

Originally Posted by erichenryus

which makes me wonder if anyone has ever tried to use the full 512 sampling ram on the fantom to recreate a piano?

There's a guy who has created his own piano samples for use with the Fantoms and Motifs, don't know if you've seen the link but you can't help by being impressed by his attitude and the reviews.

http://www.williamcoakley.com/

Originally Posted by erichenryus

And I have to disagree with one of the previous posts that the RD700 is Roland's best piano. The fantom X series sounds a million times better to my ears.

Amen!!

(btw as we appear to have similar tastes in piano sound, I'd be interested in what you think of the Coakley samples as I've yet to listen to them... no speakers in work and a desperately slow net connection at home)

[erichenryus]

god bless that man!!!

those samples sound pretty damn good to me. and if i can just load it into my fantom Xr instead of registering more software that will break and make me wring my hands and swear all the better!!

[SonicAlbert]

You might have to build it from scratch in the Fantom XR. In other words, load in the samples and build the preset from that. I found the Fantom XR to be extremely problematic when trying to load in large amounts of samples for big instruments. Maybe you'll have better luck, and maybe they've updated the system OS since I got mine right when it first came out. I no longer own it, as it was impossible to work around the bottleneck and fill it up with the 512 megs of sample RAM.

[erichenryus]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

You might have to build it from scratch in the Fantom XR. In other words, load in the samples and build the preset from that. I found the Fantom XR to be extremely problematic when trying to load in large amounts of samples for big instruments. Maybe you'll have better luck, and maybe they've updated the system OS since I got mine right when it first came out. I no longer own it, as it was impossible to work around the bottleneck and fill it up with the 512 megs of sample RAM.

yeah. i just got mine used and it's version 1.00 os so I'm sure there are hurdles. I haven't even gotten to sampling yet.

here's a cool site which compares all the available piano samples:
http://www.playivorys.com/modules.ph...=Piano_compare

[SonicAlbert]

Sampling is great and easy on the Fantom XR. It's the loading of sample libs that is not as easy as it should be, or even practical at all, in my experience.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Cazzbar

Is the EIV a soft synth thing? I've done a quick google and I'm not none too wiser to be honest...

No, very, very hardware sampler... this EIV

Originally Posted by Cazzbar

I've heard good things about soft synths but wanted a keyboard/module for gigging... will never take my laptop out with me!

Just hold on to your hardware, world is enough troubled with mediocrity and sound without substance

Originally Posted by erichenryus

And I have to disagree with one of the previous posts that the RD700 is Roland's best piano. The fantom X series sounds a million times better to my ears.

No reason (as repeated 10 times so far) for either not to find this or that piano to their liking. But using such overstated contrasts are fueling nothing but personal desire to have definitive saying, now why on earth would this be so important after all?

Originally Posted by erichenryus

are you open to using software sampler? because NI Akoustic piano sounds pretty wicked good. There is also a bosendorfer 290 software piano that's amazing as well.

Heard those samples, very convincing but in no way definitive. Perhaps this is news to some, but making 2GB or more piano library is really no guarantee of ultimate piano.

Neither that or declared resolution is substitution for know-how and decades of experience that best names (hired individuals) in the industry are capable of creating. If that would be so, Korg would have equally great piano as Yamaha and Roland, but that is still not happening.

Korg Japan folks insisted that Oasys must finally have superb piano. Although (504MB) size is impressive and I would lie to say it sounds bad. Truth is, it is just good, but not better then Kurzweil/Yamaha or selected Roland or Promega ones. Korg can certainly afford to produce (to best of my knowledge) great sounding piano. But, it is again hoped in better future, for Korg to really deliver in that department. Accumulated knowledge, or should I say evolution of certain direction is not something to make overnight. But than again. Both Korg and Yamaha
have more packed EFX then Fantoms. And most of the players here know, the exact strengths in each sounds areas that makes both Korg, Yamaha and Roland particular choice for particular users

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

As far as I know, the piano sound in the Fantom XR is the same one as found in the rest of the Fantom series. I've owned both the SRX 02 and 11 and neither is completely satisfying. The SRX-11 plays a little more naturally than the SRX-02 and sounds okay on it's own, but when you play with acoustic instruments it doesn't blend well.

Haven't checked XR, but to best of my knowledge X8 stereo sample (700 samples + multi-sampled for each note + number of velocities) are not to be found in XR

As for X blending, I respect your opinion. I've got a friend who till this date likes nothing but U220 in his mixes. Tried everything, but always comes back to his favorite U220 piano samples. After I hear each time the final mix, I can't debate with the guy

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

You might want to try a Yamaha piano sound, like an S90 or whatever the current model is.

S90ES is great keyboard, a bit softy fall compared to X, but I like S90 keys better. Latest piano sample is also excellent. I wonder, how would you like the sound of Promega 3 piano?

If you can, please do.

P.S. 1) Acoustic vs Promega (45MB)

2) Complete demonstration of Promega 3 (107MB)

[Agent47]

Well, I LOVE MY XV5050....