Micing piano?

[DAS19]

Anyone know any tips and tricks on micing a piano? I just picked up playing the piano and my family has had one for like 30+ years soo im getting it tuned and going to start recording it becuase it sounds really good in that room its in with hardly anything in it.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Upright or baby grand?

And for what kind of music?

Both matter.

G.

[BigRay]

if you are doing a rock/pop type thing...

Close micing with PZM Mics works really well. you can tape them to the inside of the front lid, if you're not removing it,or to the top - inside or out - again one for upper and one for lower registers. A raucous rock or country tune with a really big attack would do well with close mics(SDC) right over the hammers. I hate compression, but i REALLY hate it on piano..the piano can be hard to make stand out in a mix, and you dont want to use ANYTHING that will soften the dynamic attack of the instrument. MAYBE peak limiting..but never compression..imo.
I have also seen M/S right over the hammers work really well...


Now CLASSICAL(my gig is classical recording) is a different beast altogether. Micing is normally done from the diffuse field. My personal favorite is ORTF or Jecklin Disc right in the curve of the piano, about 6-10 feet away and about 5 feet up. even farther behind that main pair is an ambience or "room" pair, mixed in 10-20db down to give more space/depth to the recording....if the room sucks well dont use a room pair..but still go diffuse with the main pair.

[DAS19]

It aint a grand so I guess its just a standup. Can you open the top of a stand up and close mic above the hammers?

I was thinking of maybe taking 2 pencil condensors and stereo micing the hammers maybe from medium distance is taht ever done?

and it is ROCK/POP music.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by DAS19

It aint a grand so I guess its just a standup. Can you open the top of a stand up and close mic above the hammers?

I was thinking of maybe taking 2 pencil condensors and stereo micing the hammers maybe from medium distance is taht ever done?

and it is ROCK/POP music.

That is one option. It can work fine, but much depends upon the piano itself; some pianos sound "boxy" when miked this way.

There are a couple of other options as well. Try them to see what works best for you.

Option #2: The kickboard - the front "cover" underneath the keys and above the foot pedals - is usually made to be easily removable for tuning purposes. Another popular method is to remove this board and stereo mic from about 6" or so in front of the strings. This can sometimes be the most "documentarian" method for recording an upright. The downside is that it is the method most succeptable to noise from the footpedals.

Option #3: Some folks have found that miking the soundboard on the back of the piano from the rear has worked well for them. I have not tried this method yet myself, but quality souces have recommended this in the past.

Option #4: Mid-field miking can, with the right piano and the right room, yield a very natural sound from an upright, though usually best for a mono tracking. Something over the shoulder of the player. Off axis from the center, maybe somehwere even with or just beyond the left or right side of the piano and maybe 3 feet or so further back than the player's shoulder. Play with this a bit, thhough; the numbers are not exact, and depending upon the piano and the rrom, one side or the other can make a big difference in the clarity of the sound. Just walk around the positions in an arc while someone else is playing, maybe ducking your head up and down on occasion, and lust listen with your own ears for what sounds like a sweet spot.

Option #5: Any of the first 4 options combined with an extra track that catches the ambience of the room itself mixed in a lower volume. This works better in larger rooms with good reverberation, something where you can get at least 6-7 feet or more away from the piano without being crammed up against the rear wall. Again, expiriment with mic placement and face direction to see what sounds good.

With any of these options, it's usually a good idea to pull one side of the piano out from the wall a bit, mkaing a good 17-20 degree angle between the back of the piano and the wall. The idea is to reduce or eliminate standing sound waves that can otherwise grow between the piano and the wall and help muddy up the sound.

HTH, and good luck with the playing and the recording .

G.

[Brackish]

I've mono mic'd the soundboard like
Glen's #3. About 3 feet off the back,
dead center. This was in a situation
where the player's back was to the
wall. Recording came alright.
Pretty balanced highs and lows.
Not really natural though. For more
natural I'd maybe try a bit further
back from the piano with a second
ambiant mic or go with the
over-the-shoulder suggestion.
I've mic'd grands closer to the
mechanicals such as the hammers
and this technique gives you some
surprises with unwanted noise that
you don't normally hear.

[Brackish]

Glen, thanks for the #4 over-the-shoulder
option. I do location recording where
I can't mess with the piano at all, such
as moving it or removing the
lower or upper cover. I've always
been concerned I'll run across an
upright up against the wall and
really didn't know how to approach
it but you've given me an idea.
Any thoughts on a mono mic
to use for the #4.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by BigRay

about 6-10 feet away and about 5 feet up

Would that be 5 feet off the floor or
5 feet higher than the strings?

[Rokket]

Try this link out:


http://www.oneonta.edu/academics/mus...92/mic_tec.pdf

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Any thoughts on a mono mic
to use for the #4.

Nothing specific. One thing I have learned is that no two uprights sound quite the same. Put them in different rooms and you definitely have different characters coming out. Just like an AKG may match better on one person's voice whereas a Neumann may be more suitable for another, I think of uprights in non-studio situations the same way. Where they get miked and what kind of mic they take requires a little matchmaking. I've used everything from dynamics to LDCs to SDCs.

In general, if I want a smoother sound, I'll treat it like a vocal and probaby pick a nice condensor. If I want a more ragtime sound, it could be anything from a 57 on up.

But the key to mid-field miking like that is finding the right location. 18" left or right can make all the difference inthe world. Find that sweet spot to your ears and the rest will follow. Just stick the mic up arbitrarily and the best mic in the world won't help.

BTW, I'm waiting on a friend to have his piano tuned and then we're going to try a couple of old Tom Waits (e.g. "Time") and real old Randy Newman standards (e.g. "Sail Away") recorded this way. Just standing listening to him do assorted things at that piano the engineer in me couldn't help bobbing and weaving my head around and finding that sweet node for that piano (to the right of the pianist, just in front of the doorway between the living room where the piano is located and the kitchen ). Don't know how soon that session will actually happen, but I'm looking forward to it.

G.

[DAS19]

Fuckin piano tuners they are booked like 2 weeks!!!! AHHH I CANT WAIT THAT LONG!

[DAS19]

I got one to come tomorrow . Should be rolling music out in no time since I wrote a song today.