Do drums has to be always 1st?

[tribal]

Hi, I am doing multi track computer recording (Alesis multimix 16 f/w) and I usually start up recording with Acoustic guitar cos it's my 1st instrument. I usually record drums later cos I like break, slowed and filling on the drums. But it seems impossible to perfect the timing all the music together . I'm using Cubase Le version (will upgrade to SX or Sonar 4,5,6 sometimes later) at the moment, is there any drums loop or anything to fix my problems? or if you could pass me your technics I'd be much appreciate.


Thanks, V for Van

[blueroommusic]

I usually track drums first...since that holds down the RHYTHM. It's much easier to play off the drums, rather than the other way around IMO.

[Track Rat]

It doesn't matter what you put down first. If you know how to play, you just play. If you have a hard time with timing, it's because you have a problem with timing. Only practice and talent will overcome it.

[RAMI]

The answer is NO. Drums don't have to be first. But if you're tracking something else first, you should at least play to a click or simple drum beat. You can then lay your drum track later. Even though I'm a drummer first, I do my drum track last when I record. I play all my other tracks to a simple drum machine beat, and then do the drum track while listening to the rest of the "band" (which is me).

[tribal]

Do you guys use Metronome? I haven't try it out with it yet,do you think it would help my timing? I normally draw out bars cos I don't read or could write notes...

[mikeh]

As already stated, drums don't have to be first - instruments can be recorded in any order if they are played accurately and in time (which is why click tracks have become the norm). However, I do beleive it is easier to lay tracks if you have a solid rhythem section to follow.

I normally lay down a solid rhythem guitar track (played to a click track) - so there is a chord progression to follow (making it easier to know where in the song you are). I then lay down the drums, followed by the bass. This way I have a solid rhythem section to follow. Often I may delete the rhythem guitar once the drums and bass are tracked (often the song does not need a rhythem guitar track - so once it has served it's purpose of acting as a guide track it can be erased).

That all being said - given that my main ax is the drum kit, I do prefer to have the drums tracked first (preferably with either the bass or a rthythem guitar) - because trying to lay down a drum track after the other instruments are staggering all around the tempo can be a very hard challenge for even the best of drummers.

[dirtythermos]

If you get Sonar 6, you no longer have to play in time. You can fix it all in the mix. You can record the most off-rhythm mixed-tempo mess on your guitar and then sync the drums up perfectly!

As amazing as that is, you will be a much better musician if you practice with the metronome.

[zacanger]

I used to do drums first, but now I'm recording on the computer more I usually have a click track and a guitar reference track, then I can do stuff in whatever order I want.

[ez_willis]

I record a scratch guitar track to a metronome, then record the drum track and build from there.

[omtayslick]

I lay down guitar first, using drum loops for timing. I find the loops easier to stay with than a click. Then add real drums later, and delete the loops.

[gitRhero]

Same here, I have a real hard time playing to the click track in Cubase. Instead of loops I just load up a basic midi drum trk I made as a template.
Set the tempo and play. Do the real drums later (well real samples...lol), usualy built up from the basic midi drum trk.

[get2sammyb]

I seriously recommend you play to a click or simple midi beat

[rayc]

What RAMI et al said - if not drums & guide THEN CLICK goes the shears boy. Click, click, click.

[tribal]

I should definitely try out with click, click, click next time, thanks for the information guys.

V

[up-fiddler]

Originally Posted by RAMI

But if you're tracking something else first, you should at least play to a click or simple drum beat. You can then lay your drum track later.

Listen to RAMI. He knows of what he speaks and his timing is impeccable. Seriously, this is a good way to do it provided you don't have any ritards in the middle of the song etc.

[Markaholic]

Originally Posted by RAMI

I play all my other tracks to a simple drum machine beat, and then do the drum track while listening to the rest.

Thats what i do...lay a scratch track to a simple beat...once thats done...i go back and add all the fills and changes to the drums...then i go back and re-record some real takes.

[grn]

one thing you learn very quickly is to always fix it in the mix and rely on computers

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by grn

one thing you learn very quickly is to always fix it in the mix and rely on computers

Yeah, there's great advice.

[TragikRemix]

ehhhhh.... tough situation, i know how it is being a lone musician and engineering it at the same time..

the answer- NO..... as long as you play with a click, and then you can keep up with it on drums.

if i am recording a band...
i like to first do a complete scratch track, where i make everyone play live and record that, adjust levels quick, and bounce the drums to a stereo, and leave everything else independent.

i like to then do drums first, as i find they take the most time.

other times, i choose to do the 'weakest' player first, anticipating muchos editing to get out of the way.

[tribal]

Thanks guys, hey, TragikRemix, your idea of record a band is interesting I'll try that, I love live performance music it's also getting to know someone who's really talented or good. I don't understand how someone could be so popular over the world and very bad at live performance. If you are good at live that's means you're really good

V for Van

[DAS19]

Originally Posted by tribal

Do you guys use Metronome? I haven't try it out with it yet,do you think it would help my timing? I normally draw out bars cos I don't read or could write notes...

Tribal I have Cubase LE and I just use their metronome built into the program it works find and youll find practicing to one gets you really good with timing. I usally do drums last I would like to do them first but I cant make up drum beats without someone playing the guitar and im a one man band.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by dirtythermos

If you get Sonar 6, you no longer have to play in time. You can fix it all in the mix. You can record the most off-rhythm mixed-tempo mess on your guitar and then sync the drums up perfectly!

As amazing as that is, you will be a much better musician if you practice with the metronome.

You can do that in any DAW, not just sonar.

[superbeatballer]

Originally Posted by DAS19

I usally do drums last I would like to do them first but I cant make up drum beats without someone playing the guitar and im a one man band.

You could always make a scratch guitar track played to the metronome, record the drums, and then record your keeper guitars.

[zacanger]

Originally Posted by grn

one thing you learn very quickly is to always fix it in the mix and rely on computers

Erm, right. Sure.

[Vadim]

Originally Posted by tribal

Do you guys use Metronome? I haven't try it out with it yet,do you think it would help my timing? I normally draw out bars cos I don't read or could write notes...

No Metronome ?!?! I use metronome 99% of the time.
100% when MIDI sequencing, 100% when multi tracking, especially for the first tracks.
10% when recording piano solo, accordion solo or something semiliar...