Album Order - How does your album flow?

[Yippee]

Music mastering is the last step before your music goes off to be manufactured into your final product – the CD. The song order needs to be assembled, the sound is polished, it’s the big tweak before the point of no return.

Though there isn’t a “written in stone” approach to song sequence on the album, most DIY artists have a basic outline on the shape they want their CD song lineup to take.

Where do you place your hit song?
How do you develop the positions of the song on your albums?
What style do you think best describes your method of arranging the order from start to finish?

Roller coaster – abrupt ups and downs
Story outline – follow a storyboard
Ocean wave – an ebb and flow
Foreplay leading up to crescendo
Reverse train wreck – hit them hard
Cracker Jacks – a surprise inside

Your thoughts and why?

[Ironklad Audio]

it totally depends on the content

[chazba]

I sure hope there will be some discussion as I'm nearing the point where song order needs to be considered. I really would like to read others ideas. C'mon boys-n-girls...


chazba

[rockabilly1955]

good discussion, i too am interested in this question for future reference. For the little "demo" cd i am working on, i plan on doing the hit em hard approach for the first couple songs which are a pretty fast tempo, then slowly mellow out a bit, and probably put the "hit" last.

[RAMI]

I started a thread about this a while ago. Turned into a pretty good discussion.
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...ht=order+songs

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The first big question IMHO is the purpose of the CD and the number of tracks.

If it's a demo CD to be sent to radio stations, labels, venues, etc. to get more work, airtime or contracts, put your best, hookiest song first. And make it a song that hooks them coming out of the gate. Often times a listen won't make it past the first three bars. If your lucky, they might stick around for the first chorus. if you don't have their interest by then, your demo might not make it any further. Follow that by your 2nd and 3rd best songs and then quit while you're ahead. Don't let them hear your weaker stuff just for the sake of quantity.

If you're making an actual full length album for indie sale or simply as an artful creation for posterity. then start with a strong song, but not necessarily your strongest (it could be, but it doesn't have to be.) From there build the album as if you were building a single song. Don't just front-load all your good stuff and stick the weak stuff in back; modulate it a bit. Get creative:

- Make a weaker song more interesting by inserting it between two stronger ones.
- Can the lyrids or titles tell mini-stories if they are put in a certain order?
- If song 3 ends on a sustained G and song 5 starts with a sustained G, you might want to consider moving song 5 up to #4.
- Mix up fast and slow tempos - not every other song, but perhaps in groups of two or three songs - to take the listener on a ride.

All these things help to make the entire album more palatable overall instead of an album for which the second-time listener will play the first two songs and them move on to the next disc. If you save a "going out with a bang" song for last, they'll never get to it if they get bored in the middle.

G.

[rockabilly1955]

Im with your latter comment of making an "album" just for fun and for friends. But you right, I should put some good ones up front first

[Sal4001]

Here's what works for me.
Every gig we play, I tweak the order of the songs, looking ahead to our next CD release. Right now, what I thought was a great album closer, is now front-runner for the album OPENER. Change the order in which you play them each time you play them live, see what works. Start the disc strong right out of the box. Build up through the first few tracks. By track 6 I've got the
power-ballad with huge balls, and tracks 7, 8, 9 and 10 take them out of the stratosphere. rock on...........................sal

[RAMI]

Well, it's not quite the same thing for every situation. The thread I gave a link to is very informative. It all depends what the purpose of the CD is.

[Ironklad Audio]

For the little "demo" cd i am working on, i plan on doing the hit em hard approach for the first couple songs which are a pretty fast tempo, then slowly mellow out a bit, and probably put the "hit" last.

remember this:

the one single purpose for a demo to exist is to get attention. put what you feel is your very best, catchiest, most likely to be a hit material at the beginning. if people aren't digging a demo by 30 seconds into the 1st song, they'll skip to the 2nd...and if they don't like that in the next 10, it becomes a coaster or frisbee or something

[Gorty]

The best song first!!

[This Is Poison]

your songs should hit strong whether it is literally strong-hitting or not. a soft or slow-tempo song should still have the same kind of power and there should NEVER EVER be "filler" songs. IMO a song doesn't belong on an album if you don't think it's your best work.

I do believe that song order definitely plays a part in the overall sound of the record, but really, you should be able to place a song anywhere and still have the whole album be amazing.

[Elton Bear]

I'd work it like I work compilation CDs - start with an amazing song (but probably not the very best), grab people's attention, then make sure each track leads well into the next, and put the strongest song somewhere in the middle so people listen to the whole thing...

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Elton Bear

I'd work it like I work compilation CDs - start with an amazing song (but probably not the very best), grab people's attention, then make sure each track leads well into the next, and put the strongest song somewhere in the middle so people listen to the whole thing...

Who says people are even going to GET to the middle to hear your best song. It's one thing if you're an established artist and people bought your CD because they already know you. It's another thing if you're TRYING to keep people's attention. In that case, I'd say strongest up front, and progressvively weaker. You have more chance of people sticking around if you put your strongest stuff first. If someone makes it to your last song, who cares if it's the weakest one. You kept them listening to the whole CD.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by This Is Poison

your songs should hit strong whether it is literally strong-hitting or not. a soft or slow-tempo song should still have the same kind of power and there should NEVER EVER be "filler" songs. IMO a song doesn't belong on an album if you don't think it's your best work.

I do believe that song order definitely plays a part in the overall sound of the record, but really, you should be able to place a song anywhere and still have the whole album be amazing.

Well, that sounds good on paper. But, while you try to make every song good, they can't all be your "best". You're fooling yourself if you think they all have the same impact on people. Of course you shouldn't have anything you consider "filler", but you WILL have songs that have more of an impact than others.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by RAMI

I'd say strongest up front, and progressvively weaker. You have more chance of people sticking around if you put your strongest stuff first. If someone makes it to your last song, who cares if it's the weakest one. You kept them listening to the whole CD.

I disagree with this. CDs that are front-loaded are obviously frontloaded even to the average listener, and they'll mever make it past the second or third song by the time the second or third listen comes along, and it will help secure a rep for the band as a one-hit-wonder. The CD will wind up collecting dust as soon as the listener gets tired of the first song.

By crafting the album as a single work and not just an arbitrary collection of songs, the non-ADD listener does not lose interest after 7 minutes. Also, the "weaker" songs start to grow on them when the "hits" start to tire, the CD will, in one form or another, have a longer life cycle and the band will get a rep for more than a one-hit-wonder, which will bode well for sales now and in the future.

G.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

I disagree with this. CDs that are front-loaded are obviously frontloaded even to the average listener, and they'll mever make it past the second or third song by the time the second or third listen comes along, and it will help secure a rep for the band as a one-hit-wonder. The CD will wind up collecting dust as soon as the listener gets tired of the first song.

By crafting the album as a single work and not just an arbitrary collection of songs, the non-ADD listener does not lose interest after 7 minutes. Also, the "weaker" songs start to grow on them when the "hits" start to tire, the CD will, in one form or another, have a longer life cycle and the band will get a rep for more than a one-hit-wonder, which will bode well for sales now and in the future.

G.

Right. Well, I simplified my statement assuming we're talking about a "Demo" type CD. Like I said above, if it was for people buying the CD because they know the artist, then by all means, be creative. But if you're trying to get A and R guy's attention or just trying to create a buzz, I believe keeping them listening for as long as possible is your first objective. If, by the "third or forth listen", the person doesn't get past your third song....Well at least you got them to listen to it 3 or 4 times. That in itself is an accomplishment. If they stop listening after 3 songs once they get to know your CD, to me that means they would have stopped way sooner if you put one of your weaker songs before the 3 or 4 that kept them listening.
Most artists WISH somoene would listen to their CD enough times to actually get to know the songs well enough to decide what's strong and what's weak.

Having said all that...I do agree with you if we're talking about a CD that's going out on the market and is being presented as an "album", not a demo or simple collection of songs.
After all, one of the greatest and best selling albums of all time, "Dark Side of the Moon" starts out with "Breathe" a slow song that's far from being a "slap you in the face" tune. If they had followed my above theory, they probably would have started with "Time" or "Money".

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Right. Well, I simplified my statement assuming we're talking about a "Demo" type CD.

OK, I misunderstood. Didn;t realize you were talking about a demo. For that I'd agree, but I'd take it even firther. Limit the demp to your three strongest songs and don't even bother putting the weaker ones on there. You're lucky if the program director, A&R guy, or club manager will make it past the first three bars, let alone the first chorus of the first song. At least that the way one should think about it.

Put you best foot forward, put it forward fast, and then quit while you're ahead. If they seriously want to hear more, then you've got them hooked already, don't ruin it. If they don't care if they hear any more after the first song or two, another 7 songs of weaker material is not going to do any good, and can even potentially do harm.

G.

[Yippee]

Yes, quite a bit of difference between a regular CD and a demo CD - which is absolutely your strongest, best song first, with 2nd and 3rd being just as good. That's it, that is all thats on a demo as more than that is a waste of your time. Your best 3 songs are all anyone will need to get your flavor.