002R mixes and AD!

[Marlmanch]

Hi, i'm hoping some of you good people can shed some light on something for me and maybe give me some advice. I've been recording with my humble 002r for quite a while now, gradually upgrading parts of my signal chain along the way.

My pres are pretty respectable, an ISA 428 and GR ME1NV and my mic collection is ok. Various dynamics and a U195.

Each time i spend some money i feel like im getting closer and closer to what i'd call a 'Pro' sound. Obviously i'm learning more and more all the time aswell... mic positions, combinations etc etc... all great fun.

The thing that's bugging me at the moment is the overall sound of my final mixes. The mixes themselves im pretty happy with.... frequency content, levels etc. It's just the clarity and size of the mixes that's not there. Compared to commercial CDs they sound very cloudy and small.

I can imagine that the 'smallness' of the mixes may well be something to do with my tracking/mixing, but the hazy cloudy sound??? I don't want to spend money for the sake of it but is what im hearing the result of the sum of prosumer level AD across numerous tracks? Or is it equally to do with professional mastering?

I notice it the most when i check my mixes against commercial CDs on a big live rig. The difference is huge!

Someone shine the light for me please!! Cheers,

Mark

[jonnyc]

If you think your mixes are fine besides that, then you may really want to send them to a good mastering house(a real mastering house no $99 places). They'll usually get you a decent volume increase along with more sparkle which sounds like you could use.

[Ford Van]

Shitcan that Yama-hahaha console and mix in the box or something.

I worked way too many years on the O2R, and hated every mix I did on it! The more channels you use, the smaller the sound gets! It is ancient digital summing technology, and it sounds like it.

[Ford Van]

And don't get me started on the crapola eq and compressors!

[chessrock]

You're setting too high a standard / benchmark.

You're comparing your stuff to comercial CDs. You're not currently making comercial CDS. You're not a comercial CD producer. You don't have a studio that pumps out comercial CDs. Reality check time.
.

[Ford Van]

Yeah, there is that too.

[cello_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ford Van

Shitcan that Yama-hahaha console and mix in the box or something.

I worked way too many years on the O2R, and hated every mix I did on it! The more channels you use, the smaller the sound gets! It is ancient digital summing technology, and it sounds like it.

i believe he has a digi002 rack

[Ford Van]

Originally Posted by cello_pudding

i believe he has a digi002 rack

Ahhhhhhhhh....well then, shitcan ProTools!

I hate the whole similar numbers thing like this.

02R, 002R . You just never know.

But really, shitcan ProTools.

chessrock though points out the most obvious thing. Much of the music you hear on commercial releases is done is very nice studios, and by engineers that pretty well know what they are doing (but not always!)

Now, I can imagine that if the 002 rack has an external word clock input, you can really improve the sound using something like the Apogee Big Ben! This is probably the best word clock I have ever heard (in a recent shoot out between the Big Ben and the Lucid GenX96 there was a noticeable improvement in depth, clarity, stereo imaging....The Lucid unit though is a big improvement over the clocks on standard converters though!).

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by Ford Van

Shitcan that Yama-hahaha console and mix in the box or something.

I worked way too many years on the O2R, and hated every mix I did on it! The more channels you use, the smaller the sound gets! It is ancient digital summing technology, and it sounds like it.

That's because you suck, don't put your problems off on other people.

[Ford Van]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

That's because you suck, don't put your problems off on other people.

Okay, can you try to be more of a dumbazz than this? I know, it is a tall order and such, but give it a try!

[Kevin Deschwazi]

You mentioned some nice pres and mics etc. but how's the room your tracking in?

The quality of everything else is pretty irrelevant in a crappy sounding room.

[Robert D]

I'm not a huge fan of the 02R, and I pulled one of my projects out of a studio that was using one a number of years back. But didn't a James Taylor album get a Grammy for production during the 90's that was mixed on an 02R, or a pair of them?

[Blue Groove]

One thing to note is... who masters your stuff? That can take a huge toll on your overall mix sound in the end. I use PT 7.1, most big studios use PT HD rigs, a big difference, but still the same base.

One thing that might help, besides the mix room/tracking room sounding good, is listen to the individual components in a "good" mix. Try something mixed by Chris Lord-Alge etc...

Listen to where they sit, close your eyes and really listen, pay attention to the tamber of the instruments/vocals. Try emulating that sound with your eq/compression etc. Then try mixing it with a little of your taste. Emulating one (or more)of the greats is how alot of musicians start out, so should pro audio guys.

Waves ssl 4000 collection is a great plug-in bundle for mixing, you can demo it through www.waves.com

Hope this helps, good luck!

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by Ford Van

Okay, can you try to be more of a dumbazz than this? I know, it is a tall order and such, but give it a try!

Sure, I could stoop down to your level, but why?

[Marlmanch]

Hey people, thanks so much for the replys. Anyone's advice is always really welcome.

I've taken alot of good points from this. I'm not completely deluded and i realise commercial CDs are commercial CDs and are done with all the benefits of that budget! At the same time i don't see any harm in striving to make things as good as possible... that's what we're all trying to do isn't it?

Agreed, my room is next on my list of things to do and is far from ideal. I think the important thing about my room is that i hear the limitations of it in my mixes and i'm aware of them but this isn't neccessarily the problem that im talking about/hearing! That's not to say it's not a contributing factor.

Out of curiosity i might run a mix past a mastering house and see what comes of that.

Im already using the waves SSL bundle which incidently is the best sounding plug in collection ive heard since my UAD stuff. IMHO! Very nice.

[jonnyc]

I love you guys, especially you FV. I'll see you in the cave big boy.

[orksnork]

take a good mixing house and call them
generally they'll give you 60 seconds of audio free as a test...

try west westside music with alan douches....he's always done great work for me...and aerosmith