General Question About Chords

[Purpleb]

Hello I am using reason trying to make new orderish sounding tracks.

I have like 10 songs with a cool main melody, drums, and bassline, but all of them lack in the chordal section (sounding to plain then i try to fix them it sounds like to much and it is a back and fourth battle)

I am using sevenths, switching the chords up, extending them, changing progressions, appreggiating them etc... I don't think that is the problem.

I am equing them so they sit in the mix of the song nicely.

I tried using the NN-19 to get like guitar sounds, I use the subtractor, malstrom, for padlike sounds and synths etc..

I am listening to new order cd's trying to disect them and see how they play with there chordal sections.

Mine just don't sound right for some reason

I was just wondering if anyone had any tips for chordal sections?

Thanks

[rayc]

Take the easiest chords, play them well with some sense of rhythm & follow the progression dictated by the melody. After jamming that way for a while just mix up the rhythm of your playing against the beat & melody until you get something that sounds OK. THEN you might augment or subtract from the chords to get a unique sound. If you've ever listened to my stuff (unlikely I know) you'll hear simple chords & very trunkated ultra simple semi chords most of which work because of the rhythm.

[Purpleb]

Thanks for the reply. I listened to some of your songs sound pretty nice. Chords mix smoothly.

I have 3 simple questions

1. Say your just playing a c maj chord CEG. Can you have (and does this happen alot) One instrument playing C, another instrument playing E, and another instrument playing G for the chord? If so do they all have to have the same pattern or can they be mixed up (example: One instrument playing a quarter note pattern, one play a half note pattern, and the last one playing whole notes)

2. Can two instruments play the same chord at the same time? If so does the pattern have to be the same or can it be different for each chord?


3. This one is really simple, you know how there is sometimes two guitarist in a band, One plays lead and one plays the chords right? Alot of the bands i see always have both guitarist and the vocalist all going at the same time. Can someone please explain how that is? (i know this one is a stupid question)

[legionserial]

Originally Posted by Purpleb

1. Say your just playing a c maj chord CEG. Can you (and does this happen alot) One instrument playing C, another instrument playing E, and another instrument playing G for the chord? If so do they all have to have the same pattern or can they be mixed up (example: One instrument playing a quarter note pattern, one play a half note pattern, and the last one playing whole notes)

I think its really what sounds good to your ears. Petterns can be mixed sure. People do that all the time.

[studiomaster]

Good questions bro.

If you hold down the C maj chord, and play a series of keys corresponding to the C major scale such as C,E,G,B,D,F etc...you will be able to hear how the melody and harmony blends in. You could play the melody in any octave, either higher or lower, and still make it sound attached.

[Purpleb]

Thanks guy anyone else know these two

2. Can two instruments play the same chord at the same time? If so does the pattern have to be the same or can it be different for each chord?


3. This one is really simple, you know how there is sometimes two guitarist in a band, One plays lead and one plays the chords right? Alot of the bands i see always have both guitarist and the vocalist all going at the same time. Can someone please explain how that is? (i know this one is a stupid question) answers to this two

[studiomaster]

2. Sure they can....as long as it sounds right to your ears.

[fraserhutch]

You can double whatever note you like. You can even triple it and quaduple it (think power chords).

You can even play notes NOT in the triad (three-note chord). In fact, the really interesting chords are built from tones not in the triad.

e.g:
CEG + B
CEG + Bb
CEG + A
CEG + D
CEG + F#

try
CEG + Bb + D + F#
CEG + Bb + bD + F#
CEG + Bb + bD + A#
CEG + Bb + bD + F#

And then try passing tones, that is, notes moving from one part of the chord to another, for example:
C E G , play C -> D -> E -> F -> G

And so on.

Just experiment and copy what you like.

[dementedchord]

Originally Posted by Purpleb

2. Can two instruments play the same chord at the same time? If so does the pattern have to be the same or can it be different for each chord?

sure this is the basis for arranging ... and spreding the notes between different instruments is called orchestration..


as to your generalized question about chords and not feeling interesting or however you put it... perhaps trying to think along the lines of say an organ player would be helpful... one of the things we have to do is try to play the melody for instance with just the three small fingers of your right hand... then with the two left over add some other chord tones... it builds up paralell parts and fills things out... (though too much paralell can be boring as hell as well....)

[Purpleb]

thanks guys great answers

So you are saying with two instruments i can play the same chord at the same time?

[gordone]

ummmm, yeah! Why not? Get with your buddy and both of you play a G at the same time. How does it sound? Generally this is how you want to do things if you want to make "music". Now you play a G chord, and have your buddy play an F# chord. Probably doesn't sound as good now?

Originally Posted by Purpleb

So you are saying with two instruments i can play the same chord at the same time?

[Purpleb]

Thanks that is good to know and will defaintly help me out

When i am listening to a lot of new order (more of there electronic stuff) and other types of music there chordal section seems so full and full of changes. Is there any set of boundries or steps to kind of follow there?

And do you have to constantly play chords through out the whole time you are singing?

[rayc]

Lots of orchestral music have chords made up from different instruments playing related notes.
It can work in rock but you have to be careful - make sure it sounds right to your ear - instrument balance is crucial.
It is often a good idea for the bass player to play the different note - rather than the root note when the guitarist is playing an augmented chord. If the chord is Amin then the bassist might play A then C or just C. etc etc etc.

these are good Q's to ask. When I was starting to learn to play no one knew the answers to my Q's & it took years for me to comprehend musical theory - not that I do now but I have a vague clue. I hope you're getting some good ideas - I've enjoyed the positive, helpful responses you've received.

[TelePaul]

you have to remember that with New Order, youre listening to a band that are probably best in their class. they have Peter Hook, and thats where convention starts to slide.

In a conventional rock band, you have the bass shaping the sound and providing the backing, while the chords sit over this and embellish.

With New Order, the chords kinda form the main structure and almost take a back seat to the bass. You culd try either keeping th bass constant and fleshing out chord shapes with pianos or soft synths, or making the bass a little more complex and use it in a lead-guitar melodic fashion.

I have little knowledge of Reason, but New Order are a tough act to imitate! Try using delay on chord fragments or auto panning left and right (like 'Crystal')

[Purpleb]

Thanks for the answers everyone everything was extremely helpful.

[Rokket]

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but if you go into the mp3 clinic and look for my thread title "Putting one to bed", listen to my song. The chorus is a G pedal tone, and I am playing a C and D over it. It blends together nicely because they are the IV and V notes in the G scale.