Mackie 1604 Woes from a newbie, how to do basic routing and more...

[rlorentz]

First post on this board, have been looking for a studio forum that actually discusses STUDIO EQUIPMENT instead of laptop computers! Glad to find it

I'm new to all this and somewhat confused as to how to do a few things with my Mackie 1604 mixer (not pro-vlz or whichever).


First, I'm wondering if there is a way I can send a channel to a compressor or other effect, and have the 'dry' NOT play. For instance if I have a synth on input 1 of my mixer, I can have it "send" out to send1 output to a compressor, and I can receive that back in to the mix too -- but now I have the original synth track, AND the compressed version. I want only one or the other.... should I be achieving this with patchbays instead of through the mixer?


Next, I'm wondering how to add a final 'mastering' section to my chain -- EQ and some final compression. My mixer out is basically set up like this:

Headphone out -> Stereo, for monitoring
Record out -> DAT (tascam da-20 II i believe), for recording

This works fine, I can monitor and know what's going to the DAT.. however, I don't see where I can add in any mastering. I also don't really understand how I can master after I've recorded on to my DAT...



Thanks in advance for any advice!

Robert

[mrT]

Welcome to the board...

]First, I'm wondering if there is a way I can send a channel to a compressor or other effect, and have the 'dry' NOT play. For instance if I have a synth on input 1 of my mixer, I can have it "send" out to send1 output to a compressor, and I can receive that back in to the mix too -- but now I have the original synth track, AND the compressed version. I want only one or the other.... should I be achieving this with patchbays instead of through the mixer?

You need an insert cable. It goes in the "insert" jack for the channel you would like the effect on. If you're real hard up for cash you can just use a 1/8"TRS to RCA that you use to hook up an iPod to a stereo. Just use a heaphone adapter to make the 1/8" a 1/4". White(left/tip) is your send. Red (right/ring) is the return. As in the white takes signal out of the mixer and the red brings it back in.

Next, I'm wondering how to add a final 'mastering' section to my chain -- EQ and some final compression. My mixer out is basically set up like this:

Same thing... just on the master Bus. Technically that isn't "mastering" That happens after the Tracking and Mixing.

This works fine, I can monitor and know what's going to the DAT.. however, I don't see where I can add in any mastering. I also don't really understand how I can master after I've recorded on to my DAT...

You would need Two DAT machines to do that. Or some other way to record and playback at the same time (computer maybe?). You could transfer the DAT to your comp with a s/pdif and you won't loose any quality. Just make sure your comp has a decent quality output. Have you ever thought about multitracking?

hope that helps.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by rlorentz

First, I'm wondering if there is a way I can send a channel to a compressor or other effect, and have the 'dry' NOT play. For instance if I have a synth on input 1 of my mixer, I can have it "send" out to send1 output to a compressor, and I can receive that back in to the mix too -- but now I have the original synth track, AND the compressed version. I want only one or the other.... should I be achieving this with patchbays instead of through the mixer?

For this you can use an AUX loop. Let's say the dry synth is on channel 1. Just turn up your AUX 1 knob to send a copy of the signal out the AUX 1 jack on the back of your mixer. Run a line from that AUX 1 out to the input on your compressor. Then run the output of your compressor to the line input on an empty channel strip - let's say channel 8 is open. Now you have the dry synth on channel strip 1 and the compressed synth on channel strip 8. Mix to taste.

Originally Posted by rlorentz

Next, I'm wondering how to add a final 'mastering' section to my chain -- EQ and some final compression....I also don't really understand how I can master after I've recorded on to my DAT...

First of all, if you are running your headphone out to a stereo line in on a stereo (and not simply to headphones), you'd be better off to use the C/R (control room) outs on the back of the mixer instead of the headphone jack. Those outs are line level, matched to the line in on your stereo system. The C/R volume control still works with those outs as it does on the headphones, and you could still simultaneously use your headphone jack for headphones if you wish.

As far as the mastering, what you'd need to do is run the analog outs from your DAT to the line in jacks on two open channel strips on you mixer, one for left, one for right. Then you can use the AUX sends and insert jacks to chain your outboard mastering processing as needed.

HTH,

G.

[Track Rat]

Originally Posted by rlorentz

First, I'm wondering if there is a way I can send a channel to a compressor or other effect, and have the 'dry' NOT play. For instance if I have a synth on input 1 of my mixer, I can have it "send" out to send1 output to a compressor, and I can receive that back in to the mix too -- but now I have the original synth track, AND the compressed version. I want only one or the other.... should I be achieving this with patchbays instead of through the mixer?

Actually, you'd do this with one of the four busses. You'd have your synth assigned to the normal stereo output buss as you normally would and also assign the synth to one of the busses, say buss one. Take the buss one output from the mixer and send it to a compressor and bring the output of the compressor to an unused mixer channel that's assigned only to the main stereo output. Now the dry synth is in the original channel and the compressed synth is in the new channel. You can use either or both by bringing up or down their respective faders.

[rlorentz]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

For this you can use an AUX loop. Let's say the dry synth is on channel 1. Just turn up your AUX 1 knob to send a copy of the signal out the AUX 1 jack on the back of your mixer. Run a line from that AUX 1 out to the input on your compressor. Then run the output of your compressor to the line input on an empty channel strip - let's say channel 8 is open. Now you have the dry synth on channel strip 1 and the compressed synth on channel strip 8. Mix to taste.

I think that I tried this, but when I put channel 1 fader to 0% volume, I thought that it cut the sending to AUX? Perhaps I'm wrong, I'll need to test this tonight!

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

First of all, if you are running your headphone out to a stereo line in on a stereo (and not simply to headphones), you'd be better off to use the C/R (control room) outs on the back of the mixer instead of the headphone jack. Those outs are line level, matched to the line in on your stereo system. The C/R volume control still works with those outs as it does on the headphones, and you could still simultaneously use your headphone jack for headphones if you wish.

I've thought about this, but it's been convenient to have preamping before my stereo and I don't have a reason for headphones since I'm not doing 'live' soundboard stuff. I'll investigate this though as it's the proper way to do things

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

As far as the mastering, what you'd need to do is run the analog outs from your DAT to the line in jacks on two open channel strips on you mixer, one for left, one for right. Then you can use the AUX sends and insert jacks to chain your outboard mastering processing as needed.

So I'd go out to the DAT with it recording, and have the sound come back from the DAT out in to mixer channels with them at 0% volume, and then output through AUX with an insert cable going out to the chain and returning in to that AUX channel, which would then get mixed in with what's coming in on all channels and go back out to the DAT? This seems like on my DAT tape I'd end up with the normal mix, and then the post-processed mix, all at once.



In response to other thread: Multitracking has seemed like it might be the tool for the job, but I don't know anything about it at all. Up for any suggestions..


Thanks,

Robert

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by rlorentz

I think that I tried this, but when I put channel 1 fader to 0% volume, I thought that it cut the sending to AUX? Perhaps I'm wrong, I'll need to test this tonight!

Well, I'm not positive of whether the AUX sends on the original 1604 are post- or pre-fader. if they are post-fader, you would have that problem. In that case, you'd need to use the insert jack instead. The trick is to plug the cable into the insert jack only one click.

Originally Posted by rlorentz

I've thought about this, but it's been convenient to have preamping before my stereo and I don't have a reason for headphones since I'm not doing 'live' soundboard stuff. I'll investigate this though as it's the proper way to do things

There really shouldn't be any *need* for the preamping. The CR outs are matched to the line ins on your stereo, any amplification at that satge is unnecessary. And like I say, you still have the CR volume control to be able to adjust it.

Originally Posted by rlorentz

So I'd go out to the DAT with it recording, and have the sound come back from the DAT out in to mixer channels with them at 0% volume, and then output through AUX with an insert cable going out to the chain and returning in to that AUX channel, which would then get mixed in with what's coming in on all channels and go back out to the DAT? This seems like on my DAT tape I'd end up with the normal mix, and then the post-processed mix, all at once.

No, as Mr. T mentioned, you need two different recorders. If you are recording your mixdown to DAT, and then you want to master that, you'd have to play it back from the DAT and record it to another machine (another DAT or tape machine or CD burner or computer hard drive.)

G.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

BTW, Mackie does still have the manual for the original 1604 available for viewing and for download online here. That should be a great help for you.

G.

[rlorentz]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

BTW, Mackie does still have the manual for the original 1604 available for viewing and for download online here. That should be a great help for you.

G.

Thanks for the reference and thanks to everyone for the info -- looks like I really struck gold at this forum!

Apparently the manual gives you information on how to modify the hardware to get the AUX channels to be Post EQ, Pre Fader, Pre Alt/Mute... whereas by default everything is Post Fader (which is why I had the problems I did)

Though I'm not bright with studio gear, I am clever with electronics, so tonight I will break open the 1604 and fix this! Great stuff


I'm still somewhat fuzzy on the whole concept of Insert jacks and how this postprocessing chain would work out, but I'll simply get one of those cables and play around to learn.

Thanks very much,

Robert

[mrT]

as a side note I think this is a good example of "there's more than one way to skin a cat." It's all about what works best for ya. (After you know what you're doing of course)

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by rlorentz

I'm still somewhat fuzzy on the whole concept of Insert jacks and how this postprocessing chain would work out, but I'll simply get one of those cables and play around to learn.

This is a handy and neat feature and associated "trick", and very easy to grasp once it's grasped for the first time.

An insert jack basically taps into the channel signal - typically post input trim, pre-just-about-everything-else, but you'll want to check that in the 1604 manual (I'm used to working with the VLZ, which does have signifigant differences). This tap actually interrupts and detours the signal flow to the external device(s). It's just like "inserting" your compressor (or whatever) into the middle of the channel strip.

But if you take a standard balanced cable and only plug it into the first "click" instead of all the way in to the second click. It allows you to tap the channel strip signal without actually interrupting and detouring it. This way you can send a "copy" (so to speak) of the signal to your outboard compressor yet also allow the original signal to contunue on through the channel strip unimpeded. Instead of virtually "inserting" the external chain into the channel's signal flow, you are now just splitting the signal like a "Y", where you have it going into the channel strip clean and uninterrupted, *and* out to the processing chain on a seperate line.

Using that second "one click" method, you can then take your processing chain as a tap off of dry cannel 1 and return it to a different channel as the wet processed version, just like you asked.

The manual for the VLZ (also available on the Mackie website) has a nice and easy diagram of this method. I'm not sure if the one for the original 1604 does or not.

G.

[rlorentz]

Now the sends are pre-fader, all is well and I am successfully routing my FX just how I'd like! A big thanks to everyone here who lent their assistance

I took a couple pictures of the finished job, it actually turned in to a LOT more work than I initially thought it would... but there's nothing wrong with some quality "behind the scenes" time with my hardware


Thanks,

Robert


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