Vocals and Reverb

[hollywoodending]

When I want to add some slight reverb and delay to my vocal tracks, is it better to insert the delay before or after the reverb is added? thanks.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Think about it a sec.

Really, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that, but just think it out for a minute and the answer will pop out.

Do you want to throw a delay on the reverb or do you want to throw a reverb on the track?

G.

[hollywoodending]

my logic is that if you put in the delay after the reverb, you would get more of a reverb and thats not good. likewise, if you put in the reverb after the delay I guess i would get my desired sound but wouldnt the reverb sound unnatural?

[Winding Road]

Hmm, weird question. My mind is telling me that it shouldn't matter that it would create the same effect but I'm not 100 percent sure. It's like a trick question.

[mixsit]

Sorry, another one. Parallel; Verb in back on the voice, and a clean dry delay. It could stay closer to the front by not having early reflections on it.
And yes I think they would sound different, even if it didn't turn out to be much of one.

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by Winding Road

Hmm, weird question. My mind is telling me that it shouldn't matter that it would create the same effect but I'm not 100 percent sure. It's like a trick question.

wrong. if you put the delay first, you'll have a delayed voice with verb on it. if you put the verb on first, you'll have some sort of delayed reverb. they will sound very different.


hollywood---|> why don't ya try it out and see which you like? i would put the delay on first, i think that would be the standard thing to do..however, you might not like the standard thing, so try it out..some of the best effects are made by just fuckin around with things in ways you wouldn't normally...

[hollywoodending]

thanks for your input everyone.

[mixsit]

...try it out..some of the best effects are made by just fuckin around with things in ways you wouldn't normally...[/QUOTE]
Happy accidents.

[kid klash]

It was pretty popular 20-30 years ago to run a single, short delay after the voice but before the reverb, so that the reverb wouldn't smear or step on the clarity of the vocal. To my ears, it still makes a lot of sense.

[Jack Russell]

I think I'm missing something here. ???

I've always thought the best way is to run delay and reverb at the same time but separately. They should both work on the dry vocal track, then their effects should be mixed together later. You definitely don't want the delay return feed being effected by the reverb return feed, or vice versa. Unless you want to 'wash out the effect sound'. If that is the case, just choose a more washed out reverb sound to begin with.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by Jack Russell

I think I'm missing something here. ???

I've always thought the best way is to run delay and reverb at the same time but separately. They should both work on the dry vocal track, then their effects should be mixed together later. You definitely don't want the delay return feed being effected by the reverb return feed, or vice versa. Unless you want to 'wash out the effect sound'. If that is the case, just choose a more washed out reverb sound to begin with.

Naturally it depends... But that would be your parallel path.

[Jack Russell]

I used to put lots of reverb on my own crummy vocals, because well, I suck.

Then one day it hit he: Maybe reverb isn't necessary for good singers?

I mean, duh!, you can use it to sort of enhance an otherwise mediocre performance, but, in the best situation, with the best singers, is reverb to be avoided entirely?

[mixsit]

Bone dry might be just the ticket but some space is nice, maybe more often than not? But I would thing that would be a matter of serving the production or song style.
However, the stronger the performance the more latitude you have to build on it, and right up front becomes an option.
Options Vs damage control mixing.

[RAMI]

Also, they don't have to be in series. You could have a track that has delay on the dry signal, and reverb on the dry signal, with each effect not affecting the other one.

If you are putting them in series, then I would usually put the delay ON the reverb, but turn off the reverb signal, so that you have a delayed reverb...It makes sense, but I probably didn't articulate it very well. I guess I'm trying to describe a pre-delay on the reverb.

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by Jack Russell

Then one day it hit he: Maybe reverb isn't necessary for good singers?

I mean, duh!, you can use it to sort of enhance an otherwise mediocre performance, but, in the best situation, with the best singers, is reverb to be avoided entirely?

well, totally bone dry could sound slightly strange. ever been in an anachoic chamber?? you know how it feels rreeeeaaal weird in there?



it's cause every day of our lives we've heard each and every noise with natural reverb. so when you hear a sound with no reverb at all, it sounds weird.

[FajitaTone]

Originally Posted by kid klash

It was pretty popular 20-30 years ago to run a single, short delay after the voice but before the reverb, so that the reverb wouldn't smear or step on the clarity of the vocal. To my ears, it still makes a lot of sense.

increase the predelay on the reverb unit.

[kid klash]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Also, they don't have to be in series. You could have a track that has delay on the dry signal, and reverb on the dry signal, with each effect not affecting the other one.

If you are putting them in series, then I would usually put the delay ON the reverb, but turn off the reverb signal, so that you have a delayed reverb...It makes sense, but I probably didn't articulate it very well. I guess I'm trying to describe a pre-delay on the reverb.

This is what I was babbling about too. Pre-delay on the reverb.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by kid klash

This is what I was babbling about too. Pre-delay on the reverb.

Right. And now, here's another one Short tight verb, lots of predelay =
'SlapBack Echo'

[Jack Russell]

Originally Posted by MessianicDreams

well, totally bone dry could sound slightly strange. ever been in an anachoic chamber?? you know how it feels rreeeeaaal weird in there?



it's cause every day of our lives we've heard each and every noise with natural reverb. so when you hear a sound with no reverb at all, it sounds weird.

That's a good point. The rooms I've recorded in are....uh....not exactly without echo, although I'm still working a vocal booth.

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by Jack Russell

.........you can use it to sort of enhance an otherwise mediocre performance, but, in the best situation, with the best singers, is reverb to be avoided entirely?

It depends on the genre, the overall production style of the project, and not to sound like a worn out record here, but whether reverb helps or hinders the vocal from emoting. I definitely don't view reverb as bondo for bad vocals. It's more about creating the space where that vocal is coming from, and to a lesser extent supporting the mood of the vocal. That can run the gammit from no reverb to dripping wet, though todays production styles have moved more towards the dry side. Also, don't view it as a set it and forget it thing. A powerful effect can be to go wet on a vocal cressendo, and then come right back to a more immediate dry space on the following line.

[music al 56]

Cant take the milk out of coffee .Reverb or any effect AFTERWARDS IN THE MIX