Results of Ethan's Test Tone Test

[PhiloBeddoe]

I just ran Ethan's test tones available at realtraps.com. I treated the room pretty heavily with bass traps but I'm not really sure how to interpret the results. I stopped short at 242Hz because the battery in my SPL meter died and I had to continue with a different project so the baseline volume changed.

The results are also the subject of a different topic and are posted at

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=212335

So what do you think of the room's performance - good, bad, nightmarish?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

How do your recordings translate? Thats the bottom line.

[PhiloBeddoe]

Thanks for the reply.

Poor translation was the reason I did the test, but I'm not sure whether to blame the room, the monitors, my skills, or something else. I used to mix in an untreated room and the results are definitely better now and I don't really have physical space for a significant increase in treatments.

The room is 10'6"Wx12'6"Lx7'3"H. There are 4" thick mineral wool floor to ceiling bass traps in the four corners, six(6) 2'x4'x4" mineral wool treatments basically staggered along the walls, and two(2) 2'x4'x4" OC703 ceiling clouds above the mix position. Walls are sheetrock and floor is laminate. Listening position is centered along the width dimension and ~38% from the front wall in the long dimension. Tracking room is separate and treated similarly, with clouds over the drums. I've been very happy with the raw tracks.

In the other thread specific to my monitors someone thought that my room response was terrible and maybe it is, but it does seem better than the typical untreated example given on realtraps.com. A few more opinions would be great.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=212335

[bpape]

Overall rolloff is likely from the speakers. Peaks and dips are room related.

Try shifting your entire setup about 6" left or right of center. Based on your room size, I'm suspecting that additional bass absorbtion is also going to be required. Smaller rooms are just like that.

Many of the peaks/dips appear to me to be SBIR related so you may also have to play with the speaker spacing/distance from the front wall.

Bryan

[travelin travis]

light bass? it's the amp. how do i know? i have a ta1600. i also have a art sla-2 and it's worlds better than the ta1600. i don't have a flat measurement mic but i can record a couple of samples for you if you want.

you are likely over compensating for the ta1600's bass response.

[PhiloBeddoe]

Bryan,

Yours is an enlightening post indeed. I was not familiar with the term SBIR and just did some quick research. Something I never considered is that I have a tall equipment rack mere inches from the side of my right speaker, conveniently placed between the speaker and a 2'x4' wall panel. The rack is basically a stack of several 6-8 space wooden rack cases that extends floor to ceiling. I've noticed that the speaker sounded a little different and thought it was the power amp or something. Looks like I should reconfigure this because I may be getting comb filtering.

You may have also given me a good enough excuse to lose the big CRT in the middle.

Also, your suspicion that the low end rolloff is due to the speakers is kind of my suspicion as well. Unfortunately this probably means spending big bucks for new monitors if this is correct. I really hate working below 100Hz right now and if new monitors would help it would be worth it to me.

Many thanks

[PhiloBeddoe]

TravisinFla,

Got your post as I was replying to Bryan.

This is an interesting prospect as well. What kind of monitors are you using with your Hafler and ART? I love the idea of saving a few dollars by replacing the amp instead of the monitors, but I worry that I may not get the same results if we are using different monitors.

I'd love to hear some samples, but am very curious what kind of samples you are talking about. Will you put up a mic and record the speakers or something?

Many thanks

[travelin travis]

i'm using art slm-1's. i'm told that they are rebadged yorkville ysm-1 passives. yes, i will generate a frequency sweep in cool edit and record one speaker using the different amps for comparison. i'll post a mp3 of the results when it's done.

p.s. - the art slm-1 speakers and sla-2 amp seem to translate well for me.

[travelin travis]

i'm working on this but it it's looking like it's something that's easier to say than do. i'm getting distortion on the recording of the frequency sweep. my speakers are producing a clean sound while playing the frequency sweep that i generated in cool edit (50 hz to 500 hz). i'm going to try some different mic positions (current position is 1/2" from the speaker dust cap).

if anyone has any bright ideas here, i'm all ears. the mics i've tried so far are 2 oktava mk-012's and a mxl 603.

[travelin travis]

ok, 1 foot away works well. i'll have something up shortly.

[PhiloBeddoe]

TravisinFla,

FYI, I repeated the test with a different power amp (an old Carver 300W I had for live use) and got basically the same result, a low end rolloff beginning at 150Hz. Of course the Carver could have the same problem as the Hafler, but now I'm back to suspecting the speakers. So much for the cheap solution.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by PhiloBeddoe

TravisinFla,

FYI, I repeated the test with a different power amp (an old Carver 300W I had for live use) and got basically the same result, a low end rolloff beginning at 150Hz. Of course the Carver could have the same problem as the Hafler, but now I'm back to suspecting the speakers. So much for the cheap solution.

Sorry man, I got busy and forgot about this thread. After getting the Hafler connected correctly (will explain in a minute), I found the bass response of the Hafler and Art to be pretty equal. Also, the stereo imaging of the Hafler seems to be *slightly* but noticeably better than the Art at equal volume.

Getting the Hafler connected correctly. I'll add this to my major list of f*ck ups. My TA1600's speaker terminals are like this: red, black, red, black = +, -, -, +. I don't know why the terminals are like this but they are. I bought the ta1600 to use as a backup amp and had only powered it up once to compare with the Art, before this thread. I really should have known that it was connected out of phase and I apologize if what I said caused you any problems.

[PhiloBeddoe]

Travinfla,

No problem at all. I'm happy I did the test to rule out the power amp anyway, just makes me more confident that it's the monitors.

Now for the tough part, choosing (and paying for) monitors.

[COOLCAT]

I tried a few basic sets of this 6months ago or so...

and rolling off around 100 was seen on nearly all of the 6" speakers I had.

adding a powered sub brought the low freqs in easily.
(often mentioned the Sub is a fraction of its volume to start seeing the low end on the graph).

Its fun tech/science stuff.

Also I read human ears don't work like measurement mics, leaving "studio Freq" enviroment as only one piece of the puzzle.

its amazing how much the room can change the sound of your speakers or vice versus...

damn electrons and ions and protons bouncing all over the damn place, then falling into your carpet...thats why vacuum cleaners are so frkn noisy, the carpet collecting all the sound molecules from noises of days gone by.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

thats why vacuum cleaners are so frkn noisy, the carpet collecting all the sound molecules from noises of days gone by.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!