live recording

[slickspoon]

alright i know this question can have alot of possible and lengthy answers but i would like to hear some advice about what is the most effective way to multitrack live recordings to a computer. What is the chain that needs to be followed. andy products would be helpfull too. thnks

[Farview]

You need a live board with direct outs and a Motu 24IO.

[slickspoon]

ive got about 20 channels ran to my board. i have a computer with the software. i guess really all i need to know is what is the best way to get all 20 channels on the computer seperatly for independent editing. but i would like any layout and ideas on how you guys do it too.

[Farview]

Does your board have direct outs?

If it does, you just take the direct output of the board into an interface with enough channels. I use the the Motu 24IO.

[SamIam89]

An inexpensive alternative are M-Audio Delta 1010's or 1010lts. You can link up to four for 48 channels.

[TaperChuck]

I've used both and prefer the Delta 1010.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Jay's giving you the best solution.

There is a budget option that works pretty well also, It's a bit rougher than the 24IO solution, but it's a bit cheaper as well...

Back when I recorded everything to ADAT - and was therefore physically limited to 8 tracks of recording - I ran a setup where with a little creative miking and submixing I could get quite good results recording a 5-piece rock band (drums, bass, 2 guitars and a keyboard) with 5 vocals from 12 mixer tracks to those 8 ADAT tracks.

Basically it came down to live submixing the drums the vocals to a seperate stereo buss each and then running the bass, guitars and keys to their own tracks. I tried to attach a schematic of that tracking layout, but the BBS software won't let me because I already used it in another thread about a year ago. But if you wanted to check it out - it is a thread related to this one in general anyway - click here.

This could apply to you in that if you could not afford $1500 for 24 tracks of computer I/O, you could with a little planning get away with as few as 8 tracks of I/O for about half the price and still get good results.

G.

[slickspoon]

thanks guys.. i have a $3000 dollar budget to try and build something for live recording. im using a mackie sr324-vlz pro.. im not exactly sure how many direct outs it has. but i have been lookng at that motu for a while actually.

[slickspoon]

after doing some reaserch, i dont think the board i have has enough direct outs to do what i need. does anyone have any suggestions?

[michaelst]

I had the direct outs on my Midas Venice 320 modified to be pre-fader, pre-eq, post insert. I've got an Alesis HD24 with which I record the channels. I get amazingly clean tracks which i transfer to a PC and remix(using N-Tracks).

The Midas would wreck your budget, but an Allen and Heath MixWiz($1000 used) would be cheaper and had direct outs (post fader) on each channel.
The Alesis can be had for about $1000 used - another $100 for a snake.

Here an example of a recording done this way:

I Feel Fine

This is a live, one take performance recording in front of an audience - no re-takes or overdubs.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by slickspoon

after doing some reaserch, i dont think the board i have has enough direct outs to do what i need. does anyone have any suggestions?

Use the insert points for direct outs and get yourself a lynxtwo soundcard with a Lynx Aurora 8 I/O and D/A and A/D Converter and cubase sx3. $3000 puff

[Farview]

If you get a patchbay and insert cables, you could take the feed off of the inserts. This has an advantage over the Allen Heath because the faders and EQ will not effect the recording. (this is a good thing, because what sounds good through a PA might not on CD)

[cello_pudding]

may i ask what sort of music you're recording?


i'm picturing 3 vocal mics, 5 for drums, 2 for acoustic, 2 for bongos, 1 bass, 2 for electrics, a couple accordion players, an xy pair for a string ensemble, and one on kazoo.

[slickspoon]

heh.. its for my church. we have about 6 vocals 2 guitars, drums, bass, mandoline, harmonica, keys, trumphet and mabe 1 or 2 others im over looking adn yes eventually i would like to add a kazoo but that skill hasn't been located yet. i play in this band and i do home recording. the church wants to start doing live recordings and figured since im dabbaling in it a bit, they would give the task to me. im familiar with most of the equipment. im just not sure how to get all 20 or so tracks on the computer for seperete editing at the same time.

[riffy]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Back when I recorded everything to ADAT - and was therefore physically limited to 8 tracks of recording - I ran a setup where with a little creative miking and submixing I could get quite good results recording a 5-piece rock band (drums, bass, 2 guitars and a keyboard) with 5 vocals from 12 mixer tracks to those 8 ADAT tracks.

That's great Glen - I'm not the only one. That is exactly what I currently do.

[Farview]

I've recorded two live shows this year. I dragged out my rack of DA-88s and hauled them to the venue. When I got back, I transfered it into the computer and started automating.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by riffy

That's great Glen - I'm not the only one. That is exactly what I currently do.

Well, my ADAT-XT is semi-retired these days. The motor has gotten a bit noisy and I'm worried that it might act up in the middle of a gig. I still have it in my rack just in case, but it has not been even turned on for a couple of years now. But it gave me great service on the road for a good five years of bumping and bruising, so I can't complain too badly.

Jay, how are your 88s holding up for you?

G.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Jay, how are your 88s holding up for you?

G.

Out of 6, I have 4 that still work. They were run every day for about 7 years, each has had one service.

They aren't worth fixing now. $800 to redo the heads and the mechanism, you can buy working ones on ebay for $300 each.

Luckily, these things are built like a tank.

[ermghoti]

I recorded the poop out of a band saturday night. The soundman was incredibly helpful (fortunately). This band does not do soundchecks, a quirk, so I was using the opening bands to set levels and troubleshoot. We discovered: the board's direct outs were post-fader, and there did not seem to be a way to switch them. The sound-dude was familiar enough with the board to figure out how to route a couple of the mics that he didn't need much of to subgroups, so that he could keep them out of the PA, but I could still get signal. We then found a couple of bad channels, putting out as much fuzz as signal. Turned out to be the snake. The high tom mic never worked, but I didn't find out until later. It would record intermittant blasts of static, that I don't think had anything to do with the toms, but it looked like it was recording*. The 4050's in the Recorderman configuration caught the toms pretty well (I had to move them up to accomodate the drummer), so, as I expected, I really didn't need tom mics anyway.

I was also able to borrow a couple unused snake channels for my overheads, and the sound-guy enthusuastically accepted my offer to replace the 57's he had for kick and bass with my D6 and ATM25, respectively. We also pulled out my e609s for the lead guitar, which, in retrospect, wasn't a great idea, too fizzy. An SP B1 just in front of the board, about 8' up captured the room, and audience reaction.

Overall, I'm quite pleased with the results, based on a couple of quick listens, especially conidering there were about three points I was certain I would end up with nothing at all to work with.

I have a Multiface II and and Onyx 800r, so I can run 18 at once, up to 12 TR and/or 8 XLR (two channels on the Onyx will take XLR or TR).

*This is the real problem with live recording, IMO: monitoring. It is too loud an environment, even with loud cans over earplugs, to make any useful assessment of what you are tracking. This makes submixing, most noticably, extremely hazardous, as you are almost certain to end up with subpar to awful balance in the submixes. It's bad enough to have to heavilly EQ a wierd sounding track during mixing, but having one ridiculously loud tom, and no snare in the middle of a kit is awful.

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by ermghoti

*This is the real problem with live recording, IMO: monitoring.

Sounds like a great combat recording experience! I agree with you, after the logistics of the recording taken care ofm monitoring is the biggest PITA. Doing the submix routine can be great if you have time to stop and listen. If not, hopefully the soundguy knows his room and gear well enough to give you decent submixes.