Changing tempo mid-song

[leavings]

I like to use a click track or metronome when I record to keep an even tempo throughout a song, but there are several songs that I'm recording now for which the tempo seems to naturally change a bit from verse to chorus. In one song, for example, when I play each part on my guitar along with the beat, the verse feels good at about 118 BPM and the chorus at 114. If I play the whole thing at 118 then the chorus is rushed; at 114 the verse drags.

For whatever reason I feel a little uncomfortable with this, as if I'm breaking some cardinal rule of songwriting. Logistically it wouldn't be that hard to make the change, and I know the old adage that anything goes as long as it sounds good. Still it's making me a little anxious.

Does anyone have experience working with a song like this? Is that tempo change going to end up sounding awkward?

Any words of advice are much appreciated!

Peter

[cello_pudding]

sometimes it doesn't matter about how it feels playing, but what it sounds like.

try to record and listen to it, you may find the 118 rushed.

if not...compromise...116

[bennychico11]

nah, if it sounds good to you then it'll probably (hopefully) sound good to everyone else. Although I would think the chorus would usually be the brighter tempo just because that's usually the "shout/have fun" section.

[cello_pudding]

mmm...i've had it happen before...

but if you want..do it. 2 bpm differences doesn't seems like to bad of a compromise though. try it

[Greg_L]

just create a tempo track with the timing changes you want.

[nevome]

I agree, just automate the tempo track if you can. Every highschool band student has experienced tempo changes mid tune. Your not breaking any cardinal rule to good songwriting, it just doesn't happen on the radio much anymore which shouldnt be an indicator to you as to weather or not its worthwhile.

[noisewreck]

Wow... since when have we become a bunch of stiff robots that we're afraid to change the tempo here and there... and "fix" it by compromising?

Do yourselves some favor and listen to some classical recordings, some middle eastern and eastern european folk music... even a lot of punk for crissake!

[killmachine]

are you sure it's actually tempo changes and not time signature changes, cause you can play a 3/4 line in the same tempo as 6/8 but I promise it'll sound a bit different which is perahaps what you could be experiencing.

My band does ALOT of time signature changes to lump up the catch all phrase of "mathy" (stupid term), we use a click track and never actually officially change tempo. You end up sub-dividing beats or simply put changing time sigs. For example going from 2/4 during verse to chorus of 4/4.

we have stuff that goes from 6/8 to 2/2 to 9/8 to 24/16 and so on but the tempo at which we record a song never officially changes..... you follow...

so perhaps you are sticking and extra 2-3 beats on a particular chord. That sould not deviate from the original tempo setting....

[leavings]

No, I'm not changing the signature. It's a tempo change.

Basically Noisewreck said what I needed to hear.

Thanks all!

[chuck prather]

One thing I have done to make a verse or chorus seem faster is to change keys. You must find a compatible key and if your not using barr chords, this can be tricky. If it is the chorus that seems rushed(although it doesn't matter which) try moving down the fret board a half or whole step. This may give the sound of speeding things up without changing tempo.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

Do yourselves some favor and listen to some classical recordings, some middle eastern and eastern european folk music... even a lot of punk for crissake!

Noise is right, since when did tempo changes become a bad thing? Why didn't I get the memo? Is this one of those idiotic "Men of the Square Table" things?

Unintentional tempo changes - like from a lousy drummer who couldn't keep a beat on any one of hs 14 toms - are a cardinal sin, but intentional ones are part of the soul of modern music.

One does not even have to travel to Damascus. Just get off at London and look up a litlle ol' chap called Paul McCartney if you want some classic rock examples of tempo changes that'll knock you over the head.

Sheesh. Next thing you know, they'll be outlawing chord inversions...

G.

[gummblefish]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

One does not even have to travel to Damascus. Just get off at London and look up a litlle ol' chap called Paul McCartney if you want some classic rock examples of tempo changes that'll knock you over the head.

Sheesh. Next thing you know, they'll be outlawing chord inversions...

G.

Southside im submitting this to the "southside quotes" section of the cave.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

since when did tempo changes become a bad thing? Why didn't I get the memo?

Oops! Sorry, Glen. Here's your copy of the memo.


To: Home Recordists
From: Rumor Mill
Re: Rules for Recording

1. Tempos shall never change during a song.

2. Chords will always be played with the root on the bottom.

3. Lava lamps must be displayed prominently in all home studios.

[cello_pudding]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

Wow... since when have we become a bunch of stiff robots that we're afraid to change the tempo here and there... and "fix" it by compromising?

Do yourselves some favor and listen to some classical recordings, some middle eastern and eastern european folk music... even a lot of punk for crissake!

2bpm?? its not like he's going from 40 to 90 and i'm telling him to compromise with 65. its obvious that he wants a bit more energetic verse, and a more chill chorus. that can come out in the playing more than the bpm change.

and omg, i've never heard any classical recordings or eastern music at all.

*gets out classical guitar, turns to npr, plays cello*

i've come into this situation a lot, and have found when i listen back, one section seems rushed/draggin. 2 bpm's up and down is nothing to compare to classical music. he's just slowing down because of the rhythmic change, i'm guessing.

not saying he can't just do the change anyways, it's not my song.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

3. Lava lamps must be displayed prominently in all home studios.

Wellllll....OK; I can kinda see that, though I might let someone slide if they substituted that with a black light poster of the three stacked spheres.

A Farrah poster is right out, though.

G.

[Elton Bear]

Shit, my guitarist broke my Lava Lamp while rocking out - am I know banned from recording? What a bummer!

[gecko zzed]

Tempo changes form part of the dynamics of a track. Pick any piece of sheet music and you will see instructions for temp changes; there's a whole dictionary of latin terms to descrihe these.

I find the difficulty not so much in making tempo changes but in mapping the click correctly. Sometimes I do this before the event, morking out how I think it ought to go. At other times, I will put down a rough guitar track, then map the tempo to this after the event.

[Cyanide-Depende]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

just create a tempo track with the timing changes you want.

Bam,

Thats what we do. write a friggen aria, or a fuge, tempo changes happen, as long as the transitions work and are clean there really isnt a problem. just create a tempo track like he said, and stay in time with the tempo change. keep it natural

-C$

[IronFlippy]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

Oops! Sorry, Glen. Here's your copy of the memo.


To: Home Recordists
From: Rumor Mill
Re: Rules for Recording

1. Tempos shall never change during a song.

2. Chords will always be played with the root on the bottom.

3. Lava lamps must be displayed prominently in all home studios.

Oh no! I don't have a lava lamp.


If you're changing the tempo slightly due to feel, why make it so rigid and adhere to a click track? I'd think that would lose the effect. Don't worry about being so precise, just make sure it sounds good! Even if it means not playing with a click.

[tangerine]

Trust your ears

[leavings]

Originally Posted by IronFlippy

Oh no! I don't have a lava lamp.


If you're changing the tempo slightly due to feel, why make it so rigid and adhere to a click track? I'd think that would lose the effect. Don't worry about being so precise, just make sure it sounds good! Even if it means not playing with a click.

I'm using the click track because I may be using electronic drums in the song. If I can find a drummer I'll try recording a set; otherwise it's me and FruityLoops. I'll need the click track if I want it to synch up.