Next "VF" wishlist

[Paj]

I thought this might be fun (and keep this forum alive):

To start how about:

(1) 24-bit (and "super-bit") formats up to 96kHz (at least)

(2) USB I/O, host and client

(3) multi layerDVD storage

(4) balanced I/O

Paj
8^)

[timboZ]

USB or Firewire transfer and more XLR's.

44.1k is fine for what I do but 96k would be sweet.


Low end EQ sweep.

[Paj]

. . .and how about:

(5) a PC/MAC software controller/editor?

(6) 16-track simultaneous 88.2/96kHz recording. 24-32 track playback.

Paj
8^)

[timboZ]

Insetrs on all channels.
Sends with returns.

Paj. Do you do your mixing on the VF or on a computer?

[Paj]

TZ:

Both! Long, live sessions for auditing/monitoring performances (live sets), I mix on the VF. Transferring 8-12 40-60+ minute-long tracks to PC is a time consuming process and the mix is for band-member consumption. Is it just me or do WAV files transfer slower than other types of files?

For normal duration pieces/movements, the PC is convenient up to the point that I want to use a specific piece of equipment that I have (and have experience with) lying around here to process a track. I am getting fed up with the prices being charged for software that requires you to constantly upgrade or to buy new hardware so that you can spend inordinant amounts of time learning how to actually get it to sound like the thing it's supposed to be before the new version comes out with an "improved" interface and reduced backward compatibility---but who cares because you're always dealing with the noise and interference issues (more $$$) that a PC presents so "go Apple" and really watch your savings get put through the drying cycle. That's the down-side of old-school. The upside is that I just walk over to one of my recorders, almost always the VF, press a few buttons and start laying/playing ideas and tracks and am tickled to death that the recorder is more than two tracks and only takes a wink to rewind. That's an advantage of old-school.

So, to make a short story long, I use both---for convenience and results. Technology is a whore---not the love of my life. I do have G.A.S. though . . .

Paj
8^)

[teainthesahara]

This thread is interesting...in particular because i think the VF, and other all in the box solutions have had their day, and are a dying breed. There should be no new revisions, and the VF will become a cool retro vintage digital machine 60 years from now

The fostex vf16 was my introduction to recording 5 years ago, was worth 1350.00 CND new,...and yesterday i packed it up into its cardboard box, and im mailing it off to a friend across the country to use. I dont intend to get it back. I've finally gotten to the point where i've outgrown it; the VF became a bottleneck for my recording/mix quality. I've got some sentimental attatchment to the VF, but thats about it.

It is also quite telling that this forum seems to be drying up. For less money nowadays, you can buy a stable PC, get free, legit and stable software up the ying yang, and can purchase soundcards who's converters leave the VF's very, very, very far behind (e.g. lynx one/two). Just 5 years ago, the stability and software availabe on PC's, and the cost of a really good soundcard made the VF so freaking attractive. Now, its the other way around. I know that you gotta jump is somewhere, and get whatever works at the time (and therefore, i dont regret getting the VF). But i think the VF/all in one thing is on its last legs...

discuss....

[timboZ]

If my VF160's break I will replace them with another VF160.

It is a hell of a lot more stable than recording with a PC and monitoring while recording couldn't be any easier.

For remote recording just pull the VF out of the bag and plug in.....8 tracks ready to record.

I do 98% of my mixing on my PC and 98% of my tracking on the VF160.
Sometimes I do mixing out of the box on my big board by going out of the VF160 via ADA8000 into my mixer. (8 tracks out of the ADA8000, 2 tracks out of the Aux sends, 2 tracks out of the L+R)

[Paj]

tea:

No argument about the capabilities of the PC---even the portability issue is getting better. I'd be interested to see what capabilities you could really purchase at the moment for, say, $800 US (~890 CAD)---the price of a new VF.

Paj
8^)

P.S.: By the way, I loved my visit to Vancouver.

[teainthesahara]

Originally Posted by timboZ

It is a hell of a lot more stable than recording with a PC and monitoring while recording couldn't be any easier.

About 5 years ago i would have agreed. It simply isnt true anymore with the advent of today's PC or mac running a modern soundcard with tested and true drivers. I used to struggle with PC's for EVERYTHING in the windows 98 era, with PII and III machines. When i got my PIV hyperthread, WIN XP machine, it was the first time i felt a computer could do what i actually wanted. It became real and functional and relevent for lots of stuff...and this has held true with recording as well. Honestly...there are STILL things i like about the VF16 better than computer recording (plug n play, almost indestructible, never crashes), but as i mentioned earlier, even with those things, the VF has become a bottle neck compared to other PC based set ups....

[teainthesahara]

Originally Posted by Paj

tea:

No argument about the capabilities of the PC---even the portability issue is getting better. I'd be interested to see what capabilities you could really purchase at the moment for, say, $800 US (~890 CAD)---the price of a new VF.

Paj
8^)

P.S.: By the way, I loved my visit to Vancouver.

Vancouver is sweet..i've been out here for a year...and the weather kicks ass!

[timboZ]

Originally Posted by teainthesahara

, the VF has become a bottle neck compared to other PC based set ups....

Can you run external FX units with your PC.
Can you have more than 1 mix to your headphones while tracking with the PC.
How much latency dose the PC have.

The great thing about the VF is that the functions like a tape deck.
For tracking the VF is the only way to go.

[carelessorc]

Personally I still find that PC/Mac issues around latency are a problem (not just recording but using external effects). The portability thing, which I agree is much better than it used to be is not just about ease, it's about the vulnerability of PC equipment. I don't wanna take my precious PC to the gig, or even the rehearsal studio.
I tried for about two years with Pro Tools - but I find all in one boxes quicker.
I also think Paj's comment about the actual cost of PC/Mac is relevant. You can buy a VF in UK for about £550. How much computer kit would that buy?

I think dedicated box and and computer approaches will continue to converge. How about a sturdy box that can record the gig, but plugs straight into the PC back in the studio, so the tracks can be instantly available to DAW software. With this in mind USB connectivity is essential on any successor machines, as is the limited EQ. If you want to know what the next VF should look like, don't just look at the existing VF, include something like the Yamaha AW1600 (about £650 GBP) 4 band EQ on every channel, good quality effects, USB (for transferring to PC or working directly on the AW's HD from your PC), 144 virtual tracks. Yes, it has it's limits (no 16 track record at once option, and 8 tracks tied to stereo pairs) but my point is that Fostex need to look across the market when specc'ing the new machine.

Just my two penn'orth.

Orc

[Paj]

Originally Posted by carelessorc

. . . If you want to know what the next VF should look like, don't just look at the existing VF, include something like . . .

Orc

Tascam X48 (may be overkill but hurt me, hurt me!)

Paj
8^)

[teainthesahara]

Can you run external FX units with your PC.

Yes. I either patch them in while im recording to the PC, or, since the a/d d/a converters on my soundcard are significantly better than on the fostex, i can process tracks that have been already recorded onto the PC. For compression, you have to work exactly the same way on the fostex - since the Aux send/return occures AFTER a/d conversion! And as far as as running pre-recorded tracks out of the fostex, through a box, and back into it...the latency introduced, and a/d d/a conversion takes its toll big time. I know since i've tried, many, many times.

Can you have more than 1 mix to your headphones while tracking with the PC.

Didnt know the fostex could do that by itself. The headphone/monitor/aux out is simply from the stereo master buss.

How much latency dose the PC have.

None discernable (like the fostex). Again, im talking about new computers with professional soundcards (e.g. lynx).

The great thing about the VF is that the functions like a tape deck.
For tracking the VF is the only way to go.

Sure, except my soundcard simply sounds better. That is one of the bottle necks of the VF. And if i want my PC to be a tapedeck, all i got to do is run and choose from a multitude of control surfaces.

[hairylarry]

Hi,

When I do a save and then choose CD-DA format I can back up as many mixed tracks as will fit on the CD. The CD-DA format only works for stereo tracks created with the internal mixdown feature.

When I backup a program using the BKP option I can only back up one program per CD. This is ok if it's a stereo program nearly an hour long, 4 tracks 1/2 hr, ...

But if I have several smaller programs to back up I only get one per CD.

Right now I back them up to CD-RW, copy them to a hard drive, reformat the CD-RW, back up another program, copy them to a hard drive, ...

Then when I've copied as many as will fit on a CDR I burn it from the computer. This works but it's tedious with many steps and much waiting between steps.

I can then restore any of the programs on the CD back to the Fostex. It puts them back on the original tracks and everything.

It would be nice to just stick a CDR into the drive and select multiple programs to back up. Walk away and come back when it's done. Just like CD-DA

Thanks,

Hairy Larry

[Kramer]

USB support for sure to end the dreaded "how do I get my wav files from the vf to computer saga".

I would like to see them do something like Tascam has done with their latest 24 track model.

[YeshuasFan]

How about (for those of us for whom 16 tracks would be overkill) true 8-track? The VF80 isn't really 8-track. It's 6-track. Tracks 7/8 are reserved for mixdown.
Also, better FX and a built-in drum machine. One of my friends bought a Zoom 802CD and it is more bang for the same amount of bucks. True 8-track capability + built-in drum machine and lots more (and better as in more flexible) FX.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by hairylarry

Hi,

When I do a save and then choose CD-DA format I can back up as many mixed tracks as will fit on the CD. The CD-DA format only works for stereo tracks created with the internal mixdown feature.

When I backup a program using the BKP option I can only back up one program per CD. This is ok if it's a stereo program nearly an hour long, 4 tracks 1/2 hr, ...

But if I have several smaller programs to back up I only get one per CD.

Right now I back them up to CD-RW, copy them to a hard drive, reformat the CD-RW, back up another program, copy them to a hard drive, ...

Then when I've copied as many as will fit on a CDR I burn it from the computer. This works but it's tedious with many steps and much waiting between steps.

I can then restore any of the programs on the CD back to the Fostex. It puts them back on the original tracks and everything.

It would be nice to just stick a CDR into the drive and select multiple programs to back up. Walk away and come back when it's done. Just like CD-DA

Thanks,

Hairy Larry

Don't hijack the thread, Larry! Start your own if you have a question!

[Rokket]

I couldn't afford the VF when I first started out, and there were a lot of features that I didn't even see myself using. I got the original MR-8, and I am waiting now for it to crap out before I go VF.

But I would like to see it set up like a good live mixer. 12-16 inputs AND outputs, better pre amps, and phantom power for condensors so I can do away with outboard mic pre's.

[gummblefish]

Plus a Nuemann u87 built in to the side of it and an alarm clock. Could be handy.