Regarding The Tascam 244 And Some Other General Questions

[huck.finn]

Hello everyone,

i'm new here so please bare with me if these are pretty basic questions, but i'm new to analog and could use some help. I am in the process of getting a 244 and putting it like new through tascam europe, and was wondering about a number of (very basic) things...

1. i would like to know if the mic line ins are balanced...i know the other ones aren't right? if they're not, how do we get around to do this? DIs can only do unbalanced to balanced, so they wouldn't work in this situation since my preamps all have balanced outs. Are there any adapters that can be used here? I have pretty good all valve pres, ancient stuff but stuff that i really want to see well represented in the cassete audio, so getting a simple balanced to unbalanced cable without a transformer in the way is kind of not what i had in mind..

2. how many aux sends and returns do 244s have? i would really like to use at least two fx units...

3. is there anything actually balanced on 244s, excluding headphone ins of course? like the tape/monitor outs?

4. how many bounces can be done on the 244 before some degradation starts to kick in?

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I was hoping to not have to start another thread for my next very basic questions, so i'll just post them here as well, hope it's ok...

5. how do you folks go about to use your tapes? do you put more than one song on the same tape? cause the way i see it, for instance a 60 minute tape will have 30 minutes on each side, so that's good enough for maybe 3 or 4 songs right? do folks usually record on both sides?

...or is it advisable to use a tape per song and just forget the remaining space...

I was born in 81, i had a lot of cassetes growing up, and i remember them well, i just never got into analog recording, so please excuse if this is all very basic.

6. last question would be a request...i would really like for you folks to recomend a very very decent 2 track reel recorder to master my stuff (analog and digital) to if possible...my budget is 200-500 bucks for this particular reel to reel. i really want something that can come up with some real record sound (i know most folks recomend the 22-2 or the 32-2, but i was wondering if that's a good spot to aim, or if i could go a little higher for not much more money). This is mainly for my digital studio, the porta will work for my obcession with Springsteen's Nebraska ramblings, but i really hope to make some records with it.

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Last thing...where does everyone stand on the cassete debate? Meaning, is it going away? I know that Maxell and TDK, and Sony (right?) still produce tape, but i also know it's never been of worse quality as it is now...still, i would really like to know if i'm getting myself into something that will be completely over (in terms of means to record to - cassete) in a year or two...

i really hope not.

Thank you very much and please excuse the long post.

[A Reel Person]

The 244 is a fine machine, but it has the design features of it's generation, (1982), which BTW was the genuine second generation of the Portastudios. Since then there have been dozens of changes of the features with each succeeding generation, as well as a whole field of porta-clones that came along as "me-too" porta-clones.

The 244's Mic/Line Inputs are 1/4" UNbalanced. There are NO balanced inputs or outputs on the 244. However there are balanced(XLR) to unbalanced(1/4") transformer/adapters that solve this issue, and are inexpensive add-on items. It was assumed up front (at the time) that these transformer/adapters would be used, and they were a common and well known accessory item.

As for using an external preamp to feed the inputs of the 244, I'd just say proceed with caution. As long as you don't overdrive the inputs of the 244, you'll be fine, and there are handy overload (OL) LEDs to help monitor the clipping level of the inputs, which was a handy feature on the 144/244/246, before they were done away with in later models. The biggest downside to using an external preamp to one of these units is the risk of burning out the input stage on the Porta-,... which is something to watch out for.

As far as tape goes,... it's more difficult to find at the retail level, but still may be found occasionally at your corner drug store, market, or super center retailer. Make sure you get the Type II/Chrome cassettes, as that is what the Portastudio (and porta-clone) line of recorders is optimized for. Yes,... there is Maxell, TDK and Sony, who I believe are still producing tape, however that's just my gut feeling and not an official status. I've not found suitable Type II tapes at my local retailers for some time now, but I've had great success getting large quantities of high quality, name brand Type II cassettes from online tape/media suppliers and tape warehouses. Please search this forum for links. I realize that being intercontinental (non-US) make procuring tapes a bit more difficult, but I believe it still can be done. Find the US based tape suppliers and call them for special shipping to your locale,... or perhaps one of our European members will have a proper European tape supplier they can direct you to. For instance, I just scored 395 brand name Type II 60- & 90- minute cassettes from www.tapeonline.com for appx. $1.44/ea. (avg). Previously, about 9 months ago, I got another 200 name brand Type II cassettes from www.tape.com, for a very reasonable price. I kinda forget, but I think it was about $1.25/ea/avg. Often there are closeout deals on Type II cassettes at these tape warehouse suppliers that will save you big bucks if you catch their limited supplies,... such as EMTEC for 20¢/ea and FUJI and JVC cassettes for 69¢/ea,... but those deals come and go and are of limited quantity. An obvious point worth mentioning is that you DON'T have to buy gigantic quantities of tapes (like I do),... but your minimum purchase would typically be a pack of 10 cassettes. I've been buying huge quantities and stockpiling them, as a means to "future-proof" my investment in cassette based recorders, of which I have dozens. 'Nuff said.

Also, each of these tape houses & suppliers typically have a no-label Type II cassette stock for huge savings,... and they're often loaded with BASF or TDK bulk tape anyway. These no-label cassettes are usually sold in pallets of 100. Check tape warehouse sites for more details.

For this type of recorder, a 90-minute cassette is fine, although it's said that the 60-minute tape stock is a bit thicker, and therefore is more resistant to stretching during the rigors of multitrack recording. However, I've used 90-minute cassettes without any undue side effects. A 90-minute tape gives you 22.5 minutes of 4-track run time, and a 60-minute cassette gives you 15-minutes.

The 244 is a fine machine that's very versatile and sounds great. There are a fair number of 244 users lurking on this board, so check in often if you have questions. In general, the 244 and this type of Porta- is very easy to use, and is lots of fun for 4-tracking and creative home recording. It's the one I started out on in 1982. Back then it cost $1100, but may be found used on Ebay for appx. $80 on most days.

Good luck!!

[A Reel Person]

It is my opinion that any "track bounce" operation will "degrade" the sonics of the program material, by definition. However, you may bounce tracks modestly and still achieve excellent results.

If you get a 90-minute tape, you should be able to put several songs on each cassette, (22.5 minutes),... and 60-minute cassettes a bit less, (15 minutes). I've always put numerous different songs on each cassette, as it strikes my fancy, but whether you put several songs or many takes of one song on each cassette is more of a methodological/philosophical point than a technical point.

Again,... best of luck!!

[A Reel Person]

I'd still recommend the Tascam 22-2 and 32 as your basic 2-track stereo mixdown deck, but there is also the 42, 52, ATR-60/2 that are more high end and a bit harder to find.

On the other side of the "fence" are the Fostex A2, Model 20, and E-2, which are decent decks in their own right.

[huck.finn]

Holy...

A Reel P. i can only say that this literally took any questions off of my mind, you covered everything. All i can say is thank you very much (really mean it) and thanks for your time as well! You're the man, thanks a lot!

dang..

[cjacek]

Nice ARP!

[huck.finn]

Just out of curiosity Reel P., how many cassetes do you have stocked away? I'm thinking of 100 at a time should be ok for a while.

[A Reel Person]

I think it's appx. 500.

That's not counting the appx. 500 that I've already recorded on (home recordings) & have archived away in storage totes, or the several hundred I have of general commercial and live broadcast recordings I've accumulated over the years.

[Beck]

For mastering I can't say enough about the TASCAM 22-2. It specs out on equal footing with 2-tracks many times its price. Let me just say the humble little machine was one of those pleasant surprises that come along now and then when buying something on a whim.

I bought one and then bought another, so I currently have two. I use them for final mastering, tape echo and warming up my CDs. I record all my new CD purchases to the 22-2 @ 7-1/2 ips and then record that back to a stand-alone CD recorder for my listening pleasure. My original CDs are stored safely away while I wear out the nicer sounding (to my ears) copies.

If you want to pay more you can get some features with a more complex model. Some of the pricier Fostex and TASCAM models have memory points, return to zero, rehearsal repeat, etc. Personally I see those features as more valuable for tracking than mastering. The more bells and whistles, the more to break down. You can also get most parts for the 22-2 from TASCAM, including brand new heads for around $40.00 a piece. I like the 32 and the Fostex Model 20, but the 22-2 is one of the best candidates for a full and fairly inexpensive restoration.

As for cassettes they’ve been trying to kill them for 20 year now with limited success. The reality is many regions of the world are far behind Europe and North America when it comes to digital recording. Cassette tape is big business in the Third World, which is good for analog buffs. We can thank Christian evangelical organizations around the world for keeping the cassette alive longer than it might have survived otherwise.

There is still a demand for cassettes… even in America. At this writing you can still buy cassette decks at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc for home and car systems. When the decks disappear off the shelves once and for all then start to worry, but not yet. Considering I can still record and play back 20-year-old cassette tapes, I have a feeling they will outlast me.

I have about 40 unopened TDK, Denon and Maxell high bias cassettes from various times -- 80's, 90's, 00's. I'll probably pick up a few more, but that's a pretty fair number as it is.

[A Reel Person]

the 244 has one Aux-Send that is stereo,... so it can act as one stereo Aux or two mono Aux-Sends.

[Beck]

Originally Posted by huck.finn

I know that Maxell and TDK, and Sony (right?) still produce tape, but i also know it's never been of worse quality as it is now...

Interesting... I haven't bought any new cassettes since about '03. Could you elaborate on the brands/types of tapes you feel are worse quality?

Dave, Jeff, Daniel, or anyone else with portas noticed a decline in cassette quality?

I have TDK tapes made in Japan and later lots made in USA. The newest I've not yet opened, made in EU... not sure where in Europe. Any insights on differences?

Thanks,
Tim

[cjacek]

Tim,

When I first bought my 414mkII and 424mkIII in 2000 / 2001, brand new mind you, for a couple years after that I tried out batches of newly available Maxell XLII, Maxell MS, TDK SA (and SA-X) and Fuji Z-II cassettes and noted significant dropouts and level problems. This continued with my 244 / 246 portastudios until about 2 years ago when I switched to Maxell UDXLII cassettes. I've found a pack of 10 still sealed on eBay, long discontinued of course but have never had one with any noticable problems. Hardly any dropouts at all and levels dead on. The dropouts I did get, however, were really insignificant and hard to tell.

[A Reel Person]

I did some inadvertent "bench testing" of a Maxell XLII-90 while setting record/repro and internal EQ settings on one of my 244's. What I found was that the track levels were all over the place, and dropped off as much as -7db/VU, except in the middle 5-minute section of the tape, (which was rock solid). It was disappointing, to say the least, and it caused me several extra hours of tinkering with the levels, before I realized it was the tape, not the deck.

Also, in my "standard" stereo cassette recording, I've noticed on more than one occasion that for program material that spanned the end of Side A and flipped in auto-reverse mode to Side B,... that the tracks on Side B were severely down on levels and muffled on frequency response,... that only got better toward the center section of the tape. Again,... that was on brand new Maxell XLII-90's.

That's anectdotal evidence, at best, but I've been wary of Maxells ever since.
[EDIT]... though I've continued to buy a TON of them!!! [/EDIT]

[cjacek]

I wonder if that black magnetite crap they started using causes at least some of the problems.

[A Reel Person]

.......................

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I think it's appx. 500.

That's not counting the appx. 500 that I've already recorded on (home recordings) & have archived away in storage totes, or the several hundred I have of general commercial and live broadcast recordings I've accumulated over the years.

Ha,

you're stocking away i see. 500 is a lot! I checked shipping costs with tapeonline (think it was) and for a 100 pack they want 189 dollars to Europe. Shipping ends up being more expensive than tape, go figure. But i'll get to it eventually. The 244s keep slipping through my hands on evilbay though, any of you guys have one for sale? That would be ace!

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by Beck

For mastering I can't say enough about the TASCAM 22-2. It specs out on equal footing with 2-tracks many times its price. Let me just say the humble little machine was one of those pleasant surprises that come along now and then when buying something on a whim.

I bought one and then bought another, so I currently have two. I use them for final mastering, tape echo and warming up my CDs. I record all my new CD purchases to the 22-2 @ 7-1/2 ips and then record that back to a stand-alone CD recorder for my listening pleasure. My original CDs are stored safely away while I wear out the nicer sounding (to my ears) copies.

If you want to pay more you can get some features with a more complex model. Some of the pricier Fostex and TASCAM models have memory points, return to zero, rehearsal repeat, etc. Personally I see those features as more valuable for tracking than mastering. The more bells and whistles, the more to break down. You can also get most parts for the 22-2 from TASCAM, including brand new heads for around $40.00 a piece. I like the 32 and the Fostex Model 20, but the 22-2 is one of the best candidates for a full and fairly inexpensive restoration.

As for cassettes they’ve been trying to kill them for 20 year now with limited success. The reality is many regions of the world are far behind Europe and North America when it comes to digital recording. Cassette tape is big business in the Third World, which is good for analog buffs. We can thank Christian evangelical organizations around the world for keeping the cassette alive longer than it might have survived otherwise.

There is still a demand for cassettes… even in America. At this writing you can still buy cassette decks at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc for home and car systems. When the decks disappear off the shelves once and for all then start to worry, but not yet. Considering I can still record and play back 20-year-old cassette tapes, I have a feeling they will outlast me.

I have about 40 unopened TDK, Denon and Maxell high bias cassettes from various times -- 80's, 90's, 00's. I'll probably pick up a few more, but that's a pretty fair number as it is.

Beck, much apreciated, you fellas really know what you're talking about. The 22-2 it is then. I've seen a lot of them go on ebay, but i never considered pulling the trigger up until a few weeks ago. I really considered "downgrading" my whole setup wich is pretty high in cost itself by now, to adopt cassete as my only means of recording, but i see that that won't fly everytime. Right now, i'm thinking of getting my Springsteen Nebraska ramblings out of my system (the right way, through a 244!) and maybe track drums to the Porta as well for a gritty feeling, but for very serious recording i still need the convinience of digital cause sometimes the number of tracks gets pretty ridiculous, that's when the 22-2 will come in handy though. I'm really settled on getting all of mixes to a 22-2, if only i could find one now!

Cassete - 40 stock sounds good to me as well, maybe i can afford the shipping costs with that amount. Come Xmas, order the 100 pack probably.

Thanks for the great post!

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

the 244 has one Aux-Send that is stereo,... so it can act as one stereo Aux or two mono Aux-Sends.

Thanks Reel P. That's good to know, but tell me, where does that leave the knob then? I figure there's only one Aux knob in the mixer section for the Aux section correct? If you plug 2 fx boxes, what will the knob affect? How can you affect both fx units to the individual tracks?

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by Beck

Interesting... I haven't bought any new cassettes since about '03. Could you elaborate on the brands/types of tapes you feel are worse quality?

Dave, Jeff, Daniel, or anyone else with portas noticed a decline in cassette quality?

I have TDK tapes made in Japan and later lots made in USA. The newest I've not yet opened, made in EU... not sure where in Europe. Any insights on differences?

Thanks,
Tim

Actually that's something i picked up from both these fellas (Reel P, and Cjacek) while using the search function

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Tim,

When I first bought my 414mkII and 424mkIII in 2000 / 2001, brand new mind you, for a couple years after that I tried out batches of newly available Maxell XLII, Maxell MS, TDK SA (and SA-X) and Fuji Z-II cassettes and noted significant dropouts and level problems. This continued with my 244 / 246 portastudios until about 2 years ago when I switched to Maxell UDXLII cassettes. I've found a pack of 10 still sealed on eBay, long discontinued of course but have never had one with any noticable problems. Hardly any dropouts at all and levels dead on. The dropouts I did get, however, were really insignificant and hard to tell.

Cjacek,

i was wondering how strong would you rate your 424 tracks in direct comparison with what you come up with on the 244, if you don't mind me asking (circuit and eq wise, cause i dont intend to use the stock pres on any Porta i end up getting). It's that a lot more 424s come up on ebay, and i might have a better chance at those.

Unless you folks are willing to sell a 244 (hint!)..

Thanks!

[Bill Furnett]

Hey Reel,

In keeping with the tape talk, is there anything to be said for using shorter lenght tapes such as the TDK SM 30's or 15's ? (If they are even still made!)

I've always (at least) felt the shorter tapes were putting less weight and less FF and RW time on the motors.

Is loading shells with like 15 minutes worth of tape even a worthwhile consideration?

-Billy-

[huck.finn]

Originally Posted by Bill Furnett

Hey Reel,

In keeping with the tape talk, is there anything to be said for using shorter lenght tapes such as the TDK SM 30's or 15's ? (If they are even still made!)

I've always (at least) felt the shorter tapes were putting less weight and less FF and RW time on the motors.

Is loading shells with like 15 minutes worth of tape even a worthwhile consideration?

-Billy-

Bill,

my bet is that you would have to get a lot more no? But the price should be considerably cheaper as well i think. I've decided on 60, that's what these fellas are using and they seem to do ok.

[A Reel Person]

in cassette tapes, anyway!............. However, I've never gone below C-60's, 'cause the short runtime just seems too restrictive.

I beg your pardon, but my big tape shipment was not from tapeonline,... it was from www.totalmedia.com , but I'll agree that tapes are heavy and the shipping cost adds up quickly. Still, I'd check them for a quote. Shipping to Europe from the US would be high from any of these suppliers.

The stereo-Aux-Send on the 244 has one gain knob and a pan pot on each channel, which gives you a little control over the signal to each side.

[A Reel Person]

I think I bought some C-46's and C-30's, but haven't used them yet. The runtime on them is frighteninly low, though, (11.5 and 7.5 minutes, respectively).

Anyway, at this time I'm well stocked on cassette and reel media, and I'll continue to pick up more as the budget allows over time.

When you have a dozen & a half reel recorders and several dozen cassette recorders, the long term supply of media does become a concern, hence my stockpiling new media as future-proofing my investment.

The good news is that if you know where to look, media is still plentiful,... & limited not by supply but probably by the user's budget. It just irks me a bit that I can't find 10-packs of suitable media at the Tower Records, Best Buy, etc,... although a search on the i'net showed up Memorex Type II C-90's are still available OTC at Circuit City. I'll be going there some day soon to check it out.

In my position, I don't think you can have "too much" blank media.

That points up another contradiction for me personally, and I'll admit that I have no excuses for not recording ~something~ every day!!

Good luck!.........

[Beck]

Originally Posted by Bill Furnett

is there anything to be said for using shorter lenght tapes such as the TDK SM 30's or 15's ? (If they are even still made!)

Going back to the original Portastudio 144, TASCAM recommended 60-minute tape because it’s thicker and therefore less vulnerable to stretching, and has less print-through. 60-minute is the cutoff. Everything below that is the same thickness. 90-minute is a bit thinner and 120-minute is just plain too thin and not recommended.

Stretching disrupts the consistency of the oxide layer, which results in more frequent and longer dropouts over time.

That’s the main reason for shorter tapes. Another reason is if you just want one song on each tape.

At the typical double speed of a cassette multitrack 60 minutes gives you about 15 minutes of record time. If someone is troubled by leftover tape they can use 30-minute tapes for about 7.5 minutes of record time. There seems to be little to no cost advantage to buying tapes under 60-minute. Shorter tapes are less common and may be harder to find. Hopefully 60 or even 46 minute will be around for a while.

90 or 100-minute tapes are fine for listening, but the process of multitrack recording demands the shorter (thicker) tape for best results.

Looking back, I think careful tape brand selection, using C60s and a regular degaussing and cleaning schedule are a few of the reasons my cassette compositions didn’t sound like they were done on a portastudio. It is a delicate format, so every little tweak makes a difference.