Trying to record guitars

[amaskey]

Ok. Im trying to record my guitar tracks. I have an emu 0404 card. i have a digitech gnx3 which i am usung to record direct to the soundcard using a spidf. When i find a distortion tone i like, i try recording it..but it sounds so aweful and so weak when playing it back..any ideas on how i might be able to beef up the guitar sound and make it more powerful? I have a charvel with single coil pickups so maybe that might be why im not getting much power?

[TelePaul]

hey man congrats on first post. sadly, i'm not too familiar with either your sound card or your digitech...but depending on the quality of your soudn cards pre-amps you might be better off going down the old fashioned road and slapping a nice dynamic microphone in front of your amp. What amp do you have? Basically your missing out on your guitar signal being boosted through a dedicated pre-amp and put through a loudspeaker; these two will affect your tone CONSIDERABLY. Alternatives would be to try take out some of the treble if your sound is kinda brittle. If you're going for metal, kill the mids and boost bass and treble. But EQ will only do so much for you; maybe get a booster pedal (like the boss SD1 on clean setting) or mic/line out your amp.

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by amaskey

Ok. Im trying to record my guitar tracks. I have an emu 0404 card. i have a digitech gnx3 which i am usung to record direct to the soundcard using a spidf. When i find a distortion tone i like, i try recording it..but it sounds so aweful and so weak when playing it back..any ideas on how i might be able to beef up the guitar sound and make it more powerful? I have a charvel with single coil pickups so maybe that might be why im not getting much power?

To record direct your going to have to use some high end preamps to make it sound worth a hoot using the "Direct In" Method. I would try mic'ing . It's economical and doable method.

Also a common myth or mistake is to record with blazing levels. Keep your level about -18db to -12db on your converter level monitor.

Search this forum and you will find info for days on the subject.
just type heavy guitar or distorted guitar.

Theres other factors such as mic placement and mix placement.

[Thurgood]

Does it sound good when you monitor as you record or just crappy when you play back?

[amaskey]

Thanks for the replies guys i really appreciat it. I have an old peavey amp. dunno which model it is..but i live in an apartment so cant really do micing without neighbors knockin down my door...im running through the digitech gnx3 direct to the soundcard..guess i really wont be able to get a good sound that way

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by amaskey

Thanks for the replies guys i really appreciat it. I have an old peavey amp. dunno which model it is..but i live in an apartment so cant really do micing without neighbors knockin down my door...im running through the digitech gnx3 direct to the soundcard..guess i really wont be able to get a good sound that way

hold up a sec buddy! Has the amp got a line out? its usualy something similar to a headphone jack but shud say 'line out' or 'DI out'. With my AVT 50, I can take a line out from the amp and disable the speaker; I get a good toone coz its through the AVTs pre-amp. Ummm other solutions are available. Stomp boxes between guitar and sound card might do it, though youd have to be careful of clipping. theres also guitar rig; theyre plug ins but can give great tone. we'll crack this problem yet, don't despair!

[amaskey]

Thanks again for tryin to help... this is how i have my set up..

guitars->gnx3->soundcard via spidf.

I do have an old peavy amp...but going throiugh the amp will mean that i wont be able to connect throguh spidif which someone told me is a bad thing? I do have a pedal too which i tried going through as well but got a lot of clipping and noise..I will try uploading the sound that i am getting so maybe that will help undertsand the problem more?

Thanks.

[TelePaul]

Hmm...spidif ? im not familiar with this...is it a pre?

[amaskey]

well the gnx3 has a S/PDIFoutput so it transfer the audio in digital format rahter than analog while going thorugh the guitar cables? Supposed to make the sound more better. i guess?

[TelePaul]

oh okay, im not familiar with this. but then again, with digital youre going down a dangerous road!

[amaskey]

going down a dangerous road i was told by people at guitar center to go digital if possible. im almost to the point of giving up

[TelePaul]

ah dont say that dude, im having huge problems with my audio set up but i still love music. Basicaaly i dont know about that spidf cable
post your problem on the recording techniques forum and you'll get alot of answer.

[Tadpui]

If your sound card has a S/PDIF input and your Digitech has a S/PDIF out, then that's definitely the optimal way to connect the 2 devices.

I'm not sure why you'd be getting such a poor signal.

So it sounds good when you're monitoring (I take it you're listening thru headphones connected directly to the Digitech?), but sounds like poo when you record it. So you're probably monitoring through the headphone out, but recording fromthe SPDIF out.

I wonder if there's some configuration that needs to be done either on the Digitech or the EMU that will adjust the level of the signal coming thru the S/PDIF. Just make sure that you're going from the Digitech's S/PDIF out to the EMU's S/PDIF in. S/PDIF is a digital signal...1s and 0s, bits and bytes. If you plug it in to an analog input, its just going to come out as noise. So make sure that you've got everything plugged in where it belongs as a first step.

[amaskey]

Thanks again for everyone trying to help. I noticed that in cubase theirs a gain plugin which i can use the make the sound louder..Is this recomended or should the sound be idealy at a decent volume to start out with?

[blueroommusic]

don't use the gain plug IMO...get the right levels going in

[Obstacle1]

Hey, not to clued up on ur specific equipment but I record through my amp with an SM-57 slapped infront of it, then XLR to my pre-amp/dsktop mixer, into my software package. I seem to get great results. So maybe u shud look into getting a instrument mic and just mic up ur amp. Sure SM-57 seems to be hailed as one of the best and aint too badly priced.

Hope this helps...

--------------------
These walls are paper thin Tadpui

[Tadpui]

Originally Posted by Obstacle1

These walls are paper thin Tadpui

Haha, it's only taken 3 years of having that sig for someone to recognize it

[amaskey]

Sorry to bother you all again. So micing means taking a mic and sticking it in front of the amp correct? Now would the room have anything to do with determining the sound? I live in a small apartment so i dunno if micing might be the ideal way to go since i wouldnt be able to turn up the volume too high

[amaskey]

heres an example of a song i recorded a few years ago.. as you can probably tell the guitars sound like crap.

http://www.digitech.com/soundcomm/patches/GNX3/01.mp3

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by amaskey

Sorry to bother you all again. So micing means taking a mic and sticking it in front of the amp correct? Now would the room have anything to do with determining the sound? I live in a small apartment so i dunno if micing might be the ideal way to go since i wouldnt be able to turn up the volume too high

yeah this is the simplest and dare I say it best way to record an electric guitar. And yes, the room ambience will affect the sound to a degree; wooden floors and high ceilings or lots of glass will cause the sound to bounce back..but if your apartment is small, you shoudl egt a fairly dedicated reproduction of the sound.

I listened to your demo; the guitars arent CRAP, but theyre certainly lacking in body...you need more attention to low-end frequencies. I would recommend a booster pedal, eitehr between your guitar and sound card or even to push your amp to the limits. I know that you can get isolation boxes for amps but these are pricey. Maybe people will be able to suggest alternatives, try the studio design forum.

[inimicus]

I have a GNX3, so I might be able to help.

S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format, I think) is also known as digital coax, same stuff used in home theater.

There is a setting of the Digital Output level in the GNX3. It is in the main setup menu. I believe the default setting is set pretty low. Check that out and try boosting it. If it's too high, you'll just clip clip clip.

In my GNX3 recording adventures, I would often use the onboard digital 8 track. A 128MB SmartMedia card (not cheap for the size, $59 for a PNY brand at BestBuy) is what I use. Then I stick the SM card into my card reader (after using the Card>PC function on the GNX3... if you skip this step your card will be erased on the computer if you're not careful), import the WAVs into a mixing application, and then mixdown the final tracks into an MP3 or whatever. This has given me the best quality out of the GNX3.

After spending cash on Mark IV, Mesa 4x12, Mackie 1220, and Sennheiser e906... I can't stand the way the GNX3 sounds... but for the time being the GNX3's digital recorder was my best friend.

Here are some samples I recorded using this method. Old, embarrassing recordings. Might recognize a few.

http://www.inimicus.com/mop.mp3
http://www.inimicus.com/newsong.mp3
http://www.inimicus.com/koopa.mp3

Solo back track loops:
http://www.inimicus.com/reggae.mp3
http://www.inimicus.com/rock.mp3

And for comparison... this was done with the recording out of my Mark IV into a SB Extigy soundcard late at night. If your amp has a recording/DI out, this is the type of sound you'd get.
http://www.inimicus.com/patterns.mp3

For dicking around, the GNX3 is great. But for any quality recording you might want to show off... there are better methods.

[rocketman768]

Your guitars sound like they are in a freaking tunnel. Not only is it muddy in the 200-300 Hz range, but it also lacks both high and low end. When you say that you find a distortion that you like, what are you listening through? Are you connecting it up to an amp/speaker or are you listening through headphones connected directly to the GNX3?

Also, you need to check what output mode the SPDIF is set to. There are 4 modes on the GNX3: GTR+REC, G-DRY, G-AMP, and RECORDER. You need to set it to GTR+REC or RECORDER in order to get all the effects and cab modelling and whatever else. You can do this in the Digital Output Configuration page of the UTILITY section.

Give us detailed info about what you are doing, and check your SPDIF settings.

[amaskey]

Thanks everyone for their help. I figured out that my spdif output in my gnx3 was set too low which was the reason the sound wasnt coming as i was expecting. Thanks again.