Zero Headroom In The Box?!

[bileshake]

I'm using Cubase 5.2 VST on a Mac with a Delta 1010lt card with some decent monitors. I've been at it for a couple years, now I have learned alot about getting a better signal and whatever. My mixes end up with way less headroom than everything "redbook" I compare it to. I'm recording at 24bit/48hrz and it doesn't seem to help. 32bit "truetape" mode in that setup works better but my mac is older and can't run like that for a whole project.
Is it my I/O, aincient software, or the fact that I'm relying on a DAW to accomplish high end results?
I'm thinking of starting to purchase an HD24 and stay away from DAW's as much as possible.
Oh yeah, another thought is the VST effects, maybe they're dithering the signal and making it sound crappier?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It sounds like maybe you might be recording into Cubase a bit too hot. At 24bit you have more than enough dynamic range to bring your tracks in colder than you might think at first blush.

If you have your levels set properly going into and out of your Delta 1010, you should be able to have the input mixer faders in Cubase set to unity gain and be bringing each track into Cubase at an average level somewhere in the mid -teens on your Cubase meters and still have great sound with plenty of headroom.

G.

[Reggie]

I wonder what you are really talking about here......Are you saying that your mixes hit 0.0 dbfs more often than other CDs you compare to? Or are you talking about the sound quality?
In a sense, I guess you do have zero headroom in the box. But you have zero headroom anytime you are recording digitally, DAW or not. "Zero" is your ceiling; there is no headroom.

One place you may be at a lack of headroom is your microphone preamp. If you are hooking a mic directly to the 1010's mic input, that would be a good place to search out improvement.

[flatfinger]

http://www.harmony-central.com/artic.../eq_dc_offset/

[bileshake]

I'm talking about the sound of the finished mix, not ones and zeros. I'm working with heavy rock, buy the time your done giving everything it's own individual space and strength in the mix there doesn't seem to be anything left. One thing I think might contribute to this is the final mixdown file in cubase is always very quiet and takes alot of work to get your mix to stand up to current CD volumes. I guess this maximizing and final comp could be squeezing the air out of my mix. I don't know.

[Reggie]

Yeah, I don't think we are going to be able to help you with out hearing some stuff or being in the room when you are recording and mixing. But your DAW would be one of the last things I would point a finger at.....

[Farview]

Yea, headroom is the space between your highest audio peak and the highest signal level your equipment can take before distorting.

From your second description, it sounds like a mastering problem. Mixes are supposed to be quiet. The compression and limiting in the mastering stage brings up the volume, but you really have to understand how to use it or you will just destroy the sound.

Most of the commercial CDs in your collection were done on a DAW (assuming most of your CDs are from the last 10 years) The DAW isn't the problem.

[bileshake]

Ok, a strong vocal part makes it harder to decern what the snare is doing. Guitar parts carved into different freq. and stereo space still fight for space in the mix. That's the kind of "headroom" I'm talking about, not the math, the audio. If no one here has had to deal with this before maybe I'm from mars.

[BigRay]

if you are tracking at 24 bit, there is no need to have peaks over -15 or -10...

try backing off the levels...leave yourself plenty of room.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by bileshake

Ok, a strong vocal part makes it harder to decern what the snare is doing. Guitar parts carved into different freq. and stereo space still fight for space in the mix. That's the kind of "headroom" I'm talking about, not the math, the audio. If no one here has had to deal with this before maybe I'm from mars.

We're getting confused I think because what you describe in this post is not directly related to "headroom" in the technical sense. It sounds like - based upon this new post - you're having trouble actually mixing tracks and building a solid mix, which is something entirely different (and yes, just as common.)

For something like that it's hard to give specific answers without hearing a sample of the mix, but in general:

- If you are using the same kind of mic for all or a lot of the tracks, try mixing up your mic selection so that you're mixing up your coloration. Same thing with preamps, if available.

- Use pan to seperate tracks of competing spectral response. If the cymbals and the vocals are clashing, push the cymblas a bit right and the vocals a bit left, etc.

- If only parts of a track are getting buried under the mix, they might need a little compression (depending upon the type of track it is) to tighten up the track volume so that it all stays above the surface.

- It sounds like you're already using differential EQing, keep going with that.

Those are just general starters if your problem is indeed a crowded mix.

G.

[Farview]

To add to Glens post, another problem might be how you are choosing your sounds.

If you solo all your instruments individually and try to get each one sounding as big and full as possible, you will run out of room in your mix quickly.

People naturally have a 'sound' that they are drawn to, an eq curve that is pleasing to that person. On big mistake that I see a lot is when people try to get the same sound out of all the instruments. They make the bass and the guitar and the vocal have the same sonic signature, so naturally, they stomp all over each other.