How to use Tascam 38 & 388 together?

[Ginazgifs]

Hey gents.
I'm about to record a demo using a Tascam 38 and a 312.
The bass player has a Tascam 388, and we thought that it might be fun to incorporate both these recorders to create a more versatile recording option.

But, We are both kinda 'Newbees' at analog, and were not really sure what the best way to use both of these recorders to the best of their ability, or even if it would be practical?

So, I would love to hear any ideas that you guys might have on how you might use them together! or would we be better off just using the 38, rather than bringing the 388 into the loop?
Thank you

[Mark7]

You could start off by recording on all eight tracks of the 388 (bass, guitar and drums, say) and then bouncing them to two tracks on the 38 by plugging the stereo outs of the 388 into the appropriate track inputs.

Then hook up the 38 to the 312 and record on the remaining six tracks.

But, really, you might as well just record everything with the 38 and the 312.

[A Reel Person]

F/I,... Using the 388 as the primary mixer/recorder, taping live-to-8 on the 388, while simultaneously using the PGM Buss Outs on the 388 to feed the 38, which is also in live-to-8/simul recording mode. The M312 could then be used as an outboard submixer. In this example you're using the 388 as "primary", but the end result is 2-live-to-8 tapes. (This would give you a 100% accurate and genuine means of A/B testing these two recorders against each other for sound quality).

If, by chance, you're not recording live-to-8-tracks/simul,... (you'll be overdubbing parts),... then I'd still suggest using the 388's 8x8 mixer as primary mixer recording directly to the 38 as final destination recorder, while still using the M312 as secondary mixer. The only critical item for doing overdubs to/from the 38/388-mixer in this mode, would be to use a Tascam M1-B 8x2 rackmount line mixer as "CUE" monitor. Usingthe M1-B as Cue Monitor serves to isolate Cue from the Main/Input side of the mix, which prevents a feedback loop on CUE/listen-back system. (Trust me, this works!) An obvious point to make is that if you're not needing the M312 as a live submixer, it can serve as Cue Monitor/mixer instead. In this example you'd be recording ultimately on the 1/2" format, with the 1/4" side as an option. Configured as such, you may still lay initial live tracks to both the 388 & 38 simultaneously, but the overdubbing functions on the two respective reels would be done separately. Both tapes would still be 1st generation masters.

The reason I hedge toward using the 388's mixer as primary, is that it's 8-buss, while the M312 is 4-buss. I believe applying the 8x8 mixer directly to the 8 tape tracks is what your most powerful mixing/recording option. The M312 is a fine mixer, but in my mind I see it serving as a premium side/submixer, while then leveraging the 388/38's 8-simul recording capabilities as much as possible.

There is a legitimate way to sync the 38 & 388 together, (38-master/388-slave) but it would require a compatible SMPTE synchronizer and a (ELCO-36) DIY cable for the 388. The 388's capable of sophisticated SMPTE sync functions, if you really wanna go there.

Those are my off the cuff suggestions for using the 38/M312/388 together. Almost any way you slice it, you have a great setup with great options!

[Mark7]

SInce he probably doesn't have an M1-B perhaps he could use the 312 as a monitor mixer?

[A Reel Person]

Quick on the trigger there, aren't you? (Pls see my edits!)

A certain point of my post (above) assumes they'll possibly use or need the M312 as aux/outboard (input) mixer, but... yes. Of course!

If you're very careful about your patching and routing, you may use the M312 as an aux/input mixer and a tape cue/monitor mixer simultaneoulsy, by making Buss 1/2 your "live/Input" (submix feed to the 388's mixer), and Buss 3/4 your "Tape- Rtn/Cue-Monitor" feed (to your cue system/headphones). As long as you keep them separate, you're fine.

Yes,... if you think hard enough, almost anything can be done with these mixers,... with the myriad of patching options available available with these specific units. The possibilities are almost endless!

[A Reel Person]

I just thought this one through, a bit more.

With my explanation above, you may actually use the M312 as a full 12X4 submixer to the 388's mixer, then on to the 38 as destination recorder, and then just use the M312's dedicated TAPE-RTN/SUBMIX section for Cue-Monitor from the 38,... (without sacrificing any channels).

I hope that makes more sense, when read in it's entirety.

/DA

[Ginazgifs]

Sorry for the delay in responding, my puter has be been on the blink.

Wow! Thanks guys for all the input, and thank you A Reel Person, lots of great information, i didn't realize that we had so many great option with all three of these tape recorder/mixers! That's fantastic news!

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I just thought this one through, a bit more.

With my explanation above, you may actually use the M312 as a full 12X4 submixer to the 388's mixer, then on to the 38 as destination recorder, and then just use the M312's dedicated TAPE-RTN/SUBMIX section for Cue-Monitor from the 38,... (without sacrificing any channels).

So, just to try an recap your suggestion. We would use the M312 as the primary and the 388 as the submixer? is that so that we can utilize the 12 inputs of the 312b while also utilizing the 8 buss feature on the 388?

Can you explain in just a bit more detail? thanks

[A Reel Person]

Use the M312 as a "front end" submixer for up to 12 inputs mixed down to 4 busses. Then, route the 4 (PGM) Buss-Outs from the M312 to 4 Line-Ins on the 388. Use the remaining 388 Mic/Line inputs to come up with your 8 PGM (tracks) on the 388. Record in 8-simul to the 1/4" built-in reel recorder on the 388, AS WELL as on the 38, by routing the 8 (PGM) Buss-Outs from the 388 to the 38's Inputs. This enables you to record in 8x8 (8-inputs-to-8-tracks) onto the 1/4" reel and 1/2" reel simultaneously. For 8x8-simul recording, that's a pretty sweet setup! You end up with two first generation master reels, on their respective formats. Or, on the other hand, it gives you the choice of either one format or the other,... depending on the scope of your project and/or tape budget.

The second idea is to record all "live" primary tracks onto the 388 and 38 simultaneously, which you then take each reel and overdub tracks separately. In this configuration, the "front end" and first steps could be virtually the same as above. While using the 388 as Main Mix for it's 8-buss capability, then routing the 388's mixer's outputs to the 38 for overdubs,... the caveat is that you want to split "CUE" from the 38 off onto it's own circuit, and thus avoid creating an unwanted feedback loop between the Cue Mix and the Main Mix. This is handily achieved by using the TAPE-RTN/SUBMIX section of the M312. (The overdub/cue mix on the 388 in standalone mode is 100% internal).

That's how I'd do it, anyway. With dozens of Ins and Outs, and several separate sections on these mixers, the diverse patching is almost unlimited. It's a bit hard to describe patching and methodologies on a bbs, and understanding my notes would require a fair knowledge of each unit,... which only comes with time. Nonetheless,... take these notes and see what you can make of 'em!

[A Reel Person]

..................

[cjacek]

Dave, did you do this diagram? WOW!!

Btw, I guess I could do the same, only using the M-30 instead of the 312.

[A Reel Person]

Thanx!!............

Yeah, you could drop the M30 in the place of the M312 & it would be virtually the same.

DISCLAIMER: This is only one proposed use of the M312/38 & 388 together. I'm sure there are more configurations that would work for slightly different setups that do basically the same thing.

PS: The diagram took me about 1 hour on MS-Paint, though I don't claim to be an expert. I thought a picture would cut to the chase,... by fleshing out my explanations above.

[cjacek]

[A Reel Person]

that's a real crowd pleaser!............

It's a 6am insomniacs dream,... is what that is!.........

I only wish my studio looked so neat & tidy!..........

[Beck]

Dave, That's great work. This is the kind of stuff that makes me proud of this forum... there's a lot of talent here in many areas.

By the way, my good feedback for you did go through... I guess its been a while.

[A Reel Person]

You're too kind.........

[Ginazgifs]

Wow!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you The diagram is soooooooooooo helpful. Thanks so much for taking the time to help.

I'm sure I will be back to ask another few hundred questions about the 38, 312, and the 388