$400 For Calibrating ??

[SteveMac]

I spoke to a local reel place today about having my Tascam 38 checked out, they charge $90 an hour and said it would take about 4 hours. Does that seem ridiculously steep or what? So, I'm not going to do it. The reason I wanted it checked is because I've been do some more comparing and disparing and seeing that this deck does not have the high & low end response I think it should have. I compared it to my Fostex A8, which I got working ( a whole other story) and the difference was quite obvious. The 38 is really quiet and the heads look good but it doesn't seem to have the right output and lacks the high end. Maybe that's why I have no tape hiss because the high end is compromised? Could this be caused by the way it was set up or something?

On the good side of things I scored a great working Tascam32 off Craigs list for $30. It looked like it had some sticky shed on it but I cleaned it up and it sounds great. So, I guess I'll just be using that to record an acoustic demo for now.

[A Reel Person]

For nearly $400 you could buy the MRL tape & some tools & do it yourself!! Then you'd have the capacity to do it repeatedly over time, or on different machines.

[SteveMac]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

For nearly $400 you could buy the MRL tape & some tools & do it yourself!! Then you'd have the capacity to do it repeatedly over time, or on different machines.

Exactly Dave, that's what I'm thinking about trying. But, when I look at the instructions they're pretty confusing to me. Having no experience whatsoever with it. Do you think the problem could be possibly the way it's set up or someone fucked with it? The levels seem fine on it, and it sounds good on the surface. I don't know if it's supposed to be this way but it's been frustrating.

[A Reel Person]

and if it doesn't, then something's wrong.

My experience is that all "original" equipment from that era DEFINITELY needs a level calibration and tune up. I've seen an average 5-7db dropoff of levels on older machines that haven't been calibrated in their entire service life, sometimes more. Despite the description of the 38's sound, which is indeterminate, I believe wholeheartedly that the 38 needs a calibration done on it. The good new is that they hold their calibration well for years!
/DA

[cjacek]

It's a personal choice but I had spent $250 per machine having a full alignment done, electrical and mechanical. I didn't have just any tech do it. I asked around, researched it carefully and made a proper decision. Well worth the money, to me and I was up and running a short time later. No stress, no pulling your hair out etc ...

Btw, Steve, I was quoted a 4 hr job too and it cost $250 (per machine). Yes, I agree that $400 is a bit too much.

[evm1024]

Steve,

If you do decide to do it yourself I am sure that you will find all the help you need here!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Steve,

If you do decide to do it yourself I am sure that you will find all the help you need here!

FOR SURE! .......... and I know that if I had decided (or will want to in the future) to do the job, I know people here will be more than happy to help! ...a bunch of good and knowledgable folks on this board!

[SteveMac]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Steve,

If you do decide to do it yourself I am sure that you will find all the help you need here!

Thanks alot guys. And you know I'll take you up on that.

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by SteveMac

But, when I look at the instructions they're pretty confusing to me..

...and so are these at first glance, but you can do it! just do it, you'll figure things out in the process.
Charging 90 bucks per hour for servicing a device may simply come from the expectation that You (as user/owner of the device to be serviced) do charge 200 bucks (and up) per hour when providing your services that involves using the device to be serviced, another words (allegedly !) for you to spend 4 hours of time means minus 800 bucks or more, and so losing 400 bucks instead must be a good "deal" then

....or, wait a minute! maybe I'm missing something? hmmmmmmmmm. let's see, while your device is being serviced it can not be used. right? - right. so you lose 800 bucks anyways. so it's minus 1,200 any way you turn it.... heh heh
then I'm kinda' thinking. Does it look like, that the more you charge per hour of service - the more cash you lose when nobody wants your service or you are (or your "device" is) out of service?

life is a bitch.
... and then?

[A Reel Person]

...................

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

...................

Sure, I'll help.

$400?
4 hours?


Go to another shop.


Buy tools and do it yourself?

Find a shop 'cause the likelyhood of getting it right, or even close for a first timer is slim to none. Probably end up worse than leaving it alone. If it has only 2 heads, even harder.

Find a shop that willo allow you to watch how alignment is done or hire a pro to do it in your studio.

Again, some advice here assumes a working knowledge in tape deck alignment and some of the tools to do it cost $$$$

Like a O-scope (can get around, but MUCH easier with it)
Test tape - $100 - $800 depends on machine

Etc.

Tools won't align your deck, but. if you really want to learn there is some good information in your manual. Get a service manual and read, try, read again 'till you get it. Once you have it, you can align any deck anywhere anytime.

[cjacek]

I think it's good advice coming from MCI2424.

[Dr ZEE]

I think it's good advice...

yeah, aha ...>>>>>>>
Steve, don't listen to a bone-ass-head who would try to make it sound like it is so f*ng hard to understand and DIY. Just do it. Anyone who's got one head can do it... well, you'd need a pair of hands as well
(speaking of amount of heads and if-so, then it's so crap): it's , f*ng (sorry my french), tascam 38, so here you have it... (count them, damn...it),

[cjacek]

Of course anyone could do it but it's better to err on the side of being cautious and giving appropriate advice and not going gung ho on the thing! I'm not trying to defend nor lynch anyone for no good reason. If I can give credit where it's due then I'll do it. I still think the advice which MCI2424 gave is good and sound. I have not understood it to have a tone of dumbing anyone down. Several of us, including myself, had "issues" with MCI2424's posts in the past but I'm not going to piss on him now for what I construe as a good and helpful post. 'Cause it may be the "in" thing to bash MCI2424, no matter if his posts are genuinely helpful or not, I won't do it. Fuck that!

[themaddog]

Steve,
Since you're here in Taxachusetts, check out a place in Watertown called Aztec Electronics. They quoted me a price of ~$250 to calibrate my MSR-16, on account of its 16 tracks and two-head design.

I haven't done it yet, and this quote was from about a year ago. Track 16 on my machine is definitely going to need some work some day soon though.

Their number is (617) 926-6725.

Best of luck,
-MD

[SteveMac]

Originally Posted by Dr ZEE

yeah, aha ...>>>>>>>
Steve, don't listen to a bone-ass-head who would try to make it sound like it is so f*ng hard to understand and DIY. Just do it. Anyone who's got one head can do it... well, you'd need a pair of hands as well
(speaking of amount of heads and if-so, then it's so crap): it's , f*ng (sorry my french), tascam 38, so here you have it... (count them, damn...it),

Actually Mike, I would like to do it myself yet there are some valid points here. I'd like to just get it done so I can record. It's just a matter of who do I trust to do it. I've wasted alot of time trying to get this to sound right and I'd like to have someone verify that I'm not losing my mind. I might still get the test tapes for 1/4" and 1/2" and eventually learn how to do it. The Fostex instuctions are a piece of cake. The Tascams are not. I'm a very litteral reader. And when I get to a term I don't know I'm really stuck on the whole paragraph. As you know tech manuals are full of unknown terms. Like "Load" What the hell is a "load"

Thanks for all the responses here.

Maddogg. That price seems more reasonable to me. I might check them out. Thanks

[themaddog]

I've always wanted to learn how to calibrate machines, since I think it's really going to be harder and harder to find people to do it in the future. I tried paying a guy at Galaxy Studios in Allston to teach me, but he backed out when it was time for us to meet up and do it.

I don't feel comfortable at all going through the instructions and trying to feel my way through it. I do not have a mechanical or electrical background at all.

-MD

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by cjacek

...the "in" thing to bash MCI2424, no matter if his posts are genuinely helpful or not, I won't do it. Fuck that!

well, Daniel, then do it because that post/"advice" is a genuine little piece of a dead rat's ass. The "advice" such as: "Find a shop 'cause the likelyhood of getting it right, or even close for a first timer is slim to none. Probably end up worse than leaving it alone. If it has only 2 heads, even harder." is NOT helpful at all and rather IS missleading. Actually it is not an advice, it is rather a statement, which translates as: "Since you don't know a first thing you should not stick your nose into the "experts' field", and if you will stick you nose there, the most likely you WILL f*ck up your machine. Such "sophisticated" work is not for some dumbo non-pro beginner. So, my advice is - forget about it and let an "expert" do the job."
Not to mention, that the "adviser" in this case (which is a common thing for this specific "adviser") does not give a flying f*ck about the person and his specific situation, because if he did, then he would notice (by actually reading the posts and paying f*ng attention!) what machine Steve is talking about (working on) and would not need to make that "two head note", (yeah yeah yeah, I know, little things, slip of the tongue ..yada yada. B.S.!!!!!)... but then again, maybe the "adviser" has no clue about machines to begin with? Oh no , that can't be............

arghhhhhhhh, ,just going through typing this reply drives me freakin' nuts ..... Daniel, just forget about it....

The bottom line is: for a person with basic knowledge of (and/or experience working with) recording equipment (which I know Steve IS for sure) tape recorder calibration/setup is just as sophisticated as fixing toilet. Actually!, no! - fixing toilet would require more brain work, talent and stronger hands and, yes! - stronger attitude and self-confidence, than setting up a tape recorder would. (imho, of course).
and, btw, I do not expect any expert to agree with me.
****************
and, Steve... you've already said it before couple times, pointing out that you simply do not WANT to spend time/energy/effort to do some things yourself in the process, which is just fine. But it does not mean that those things that you do not want personally to deal with are somewhat somehow beyond your capabilities.
I can tell you this (as example): I never EVER changed my car(s) engine oil myself... and I mean NEVER! And so? So, what does it mean? - It does not mean a sh*t, really .. heh heh LOL.

[evm1024]

fly down the mountain on skis.

The point being that when you first go through the calibration process you are apt to be a bit slow about it. Checking and rechecking your actions. Your understanding grows.

If you give a man flour he bakes bread once, if you give him a MRL tape he calibrates forever.

PS people view the world differently. Some people look at a glass of water and say that is is half full. We call those people optimists. Other look at the same glass and say that it is half empty. We call them pesimists. Lastly there are a few who look at the glass and say there is no glass, you do not have the skills to even be thinking about the glass. They call themselves realists but we all know that they are just assh*les.

[Beck]

I generally recommend a person with no background get a new (old) machine setup professionally and then learn to maintain it from there. That way you know you’re working with a machine that has had a going over. Someone that calibrates machines for a living will quickly diagnose problems that may take a new user a year to figure out.

This is part of the total cost beyond the purchase price. This is why you’re getting a $3500.00 dollar machine for $350.00. But you don’t just want to posses the device; you want it to function as designed.

I never discourage the do-it-yourselfer, since I am a rugged individualist by nature. However, I’ve spent a lifetime working with electronics, working on my own cars, fixing appliances, etc. I don’t know how it feels not to be mechanically/electronically inclined, though most people I know are not.

Many people can learn to calibrate a tape deck, but there is a learning curve. It depends on how much time you have and if you’d like to be making music in short order.

To complicate matters, manufacturer instructions assume a certain level of knowledge; hence terms such as “Load” aren’t defined. There are also typos and just plain wrong instructions that the novice has no background to detect. I see errors in user manuals and service manuals all the time, but because I’ve been doing this for many years I know what they meant to say. When you get to the point that you know an instruction doesn’t figure, you have a working knowledge and are ready for solo flight.

There are many levels to the calibration thing. Setting operating level with a calibration tape is a relatively easy procedure that IMO everyone should learn to do. Adjusting head height, azimuth, etc takes some doing to get right.

[SteveMac]

Originally Posted by Beck

Many people can learn to calibrate a tape deck, but there is a learning curve. It depends on how much time you have and if you’d like to be making music in short order.

That's about what it comes down to. I really need to be playing out and just recording. I like tinkering too and I'd love to learn to realign a deck but the terms really stump me. It'd take a while looking everything up. If I could get the test tape and just check out a few things for myself, like playback levels and stuff I'd be at least on my way a little. Plus, if we're going to be on the tape route I guess we ARE going to have to be somewhat self sustaining in this day and age.

Mike, I don't change my oil either, though I could. I can fix a toilet but I can't fix that sprayer on the sink. It just doesn't make sense.

[SteveMac]

Originally Posted by Beck

To complicate matters, manufacturer instructions assume a certain level of knowledge; hence terms such as “Load” aren’t defined.

So what is a "load" anyway? Looking at the manual again it's actually starting to make more sense. I've got as far as

2-11-1 Input level Calibration. That's easy enough. Then 2-11-2 Meter Calibration, got that. Then there is 2-11-3 Reproduce Level Calibration, where it says to Connect the AF level meter, (oscilloscope) and a 50k ohm load to the OUTPUT jack on the rear panel. The output jack?
Hmm.....is a load, maybe, a measure of resistance??

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Dr ZEE

well, Daniel, then do it ....

I don't wish to argue over semantics or what one meant or didn't mean etc ... but I need to chime in for a sec, ok ?

No disrespect, really, but I think your distaste (for the lack of a better term) for the words "expert" and "pro" and what they conjure up (at least for you) and also perhaps past experience with MCI2424, lead you to be rather bias. In short you are trying to force-feed your views on the reader and rather arrogantly for that matter. That you don't see MCI's reply as helpful is certainly not my problem but yours.

I can't help but compare your response (and a noted insult directed my way) to MCI2424's past suggestions of his superiority over someone who doesn't follow his line of thinking (with regard to gear). I can't see any difference between the two. One is coming from someone who has a "pro" complex and the other an "anti-pro" and "anti-expert" complex. Neither one can operate completely sober. Yet, there are moments of clarity.

[antispatula]

If you want do achieve both mechanical and electrical calibration. ei setting all levels and adjusting the physical position of your heads, you can spend around 400 bucks on that stuff and learn to do it yourself. That way you NEVER have to spend moeny on calibration again! If you're like me and are too cheap and poor to get tape for azimuth adjustement AND (important and) your heads seem to be positioned well anyways, buy the 1/2" tape for 150 and do it yourself. You save 250 bucks plus all the other times you would have to take it to a pro for adjustement.

And of course there are other things that CAN be usefull like a milivolt reader that reads in AC (hard to find in local RS and stuff....Ebay!) And you can get an oscillator (or just use your computer!) an oscilloscope, a WOW and flutter meter, a distortion meter, and eventually a therapist to fight the slow decline of your mental state after dealing with calibration yourself

[cjacek]

Btw, that's exactly the advice I'd give to someone who has never done a full electrical / mechanical alignment:

(1) Find a competent tech in your area. Do your research, ask around and settle for the best tech at a reasonable price. This first point is critical.

(2) Ask if you can observe the tech at work or have him come out to your studio / home. Ask lots of questions, note down the tools and techniques used, anything for you to get a general (and specific) picture of the procedure.**

**My tech even said that he could teach me the process while he worked. I didn't even have to ask!!

(3) Study the service manual and follow the advice given by your tech. Slowly learn to do it yourself. If you're stuck then get help from this forum, call the tech for phone advice, whatever to keep you going.

(4) Good news is that you'll have plenty time to learn as those machines keep their allignment for many years!