"STUDIO AMP" one speaker or multiple?

[Lo-Fi Mike]

i'm looking to purchase a good guitar amp for recording purposes, and was wondering what qualities i would be looking for.

would one 12" do, or would 2-12" sound much bigger - is there a noticable differance?

30watts, 60watts, or 120watts -whats the best, and what can i get away with?

tube/solidstate -- i'm not the most experienced, but i'm thinking tube (probley will have to go with solidstate cause of the $)

the sound i'm looking for is nice warm clean channel, with a tight crunchy distortion, mainly alternative rock

recording in a home studio.

thanks to all for your future help

[soundchaser59]

Get a tube amp.....but I'm a tube amp guy, so take it for what it's worth.

Solid state may have more variety of sounds, but will never sound like a tube amp. A 50 watt tube amp will always be a lot louder than a 50 watt solid state amp. Maybe you would prefer to have a tube amp with a bunch of pedals in front of it? If so, then the spectrum of available pedals is a whole nother outer limits of debate and tastes....

Keep in mind that, as a very general rule, tube amps with more than one speaker are designed to be loud, but are not usually stereo. Solid state amps that have more than one speaker will usually have stereo fx or stereo models. If the amp does some stereo fx, then you will have to decide if you want to be able to record it in stereo. More to do, more gear, more to learn for stereo.

How powerful or how loud the amp is has nothing - or very little - to do with how it will sound when you play back the recording. Some very large, awesome tunes were made by recording some very small amps. Use the wattage and loudness factor in your decision if you are also planning to play live at gigs or some where other than recording in a studio setting. If it will always be studio recording and nothing else, then 30 watts - 50 is pushing it, but ok with me - is plenty for any recording you will ever do.

In my obviously humble opinion, nothing will effect the sound of the amp as much as changing the speaker. You will pay more for an amp that comes from the factory with a good speaker already in it. Amps are like car stereos.....the manufacturers expect us to put better speakers in them. You wont have to hunt very hard, cuz if the amp comes with a killer speaker, the advetrtising will say so, it will probably be a selling point. 12 inch does sound different than 10 inch, but I myself prefer the 10 inch sound. I dont like speaker breakup (like most guitarists seem to) so I put overqualified speakers in my amps.....for example, I use a 100 watt Weber Michigan with my YCV20WR, and it screams tube distortion without screamin speaker breakup, and I love it that way. However, I have a 1x12 Weber Michigan cab and a 2x10 Eminence Legend cab, and it is very difficult to tell them apart, the difference is there but it is very small. The Greenback that came in the YCV20WR is really a great speaker, but I like my Michigan a lot better. Sum it up by saying this: Dont just play an amp "as is" on the show room floor and judge it good or bad without first plugging it into a few external speaker cabs to see how the sound changes. Many amps that sound like crap "as is" will really smoke and scream when plugged into a topshelf speaker cab. The little Epiphone Valve Junior 5 watt combo is quickly becoming a good example of this. To put it politely, the thing totally sux "as is" but plug it into a great cab and it just simply comes live......again, in my obviously humble opinion!

If you really are going to use it for recording and nothing else, then you can get a really nice small wattage tube amp for the same money as you can get a very hi wattage middle of the road solid state amp.

Just some things that come to mind off the top of my head:

Traynor YCV20WR or YCV50 Blue or YCV80 for louder than loud.
Vox AD30VT or AD50VT. Hybrid with a lot of variety, and a cool "power soak" knob on back so you can lower the speaker volume without changing the tone. Needs a better speaker though to realize it's true potential.
Peavey Classic 30......my next purchase. I am trying to sell my Vox so I can get this one.
Traynor TRM40 for the budget minded who wants variety, two 20 watt channels, with two external speaker jacks, and a beautiful chorus sound, $160 delivered. Sounds absolutely huge plugged into a 4x10 cab.
Mesa gets the most recommends, for a good reason......it's good.
Rivera for those with money to burn on amps that sound even better after falling off a truck and rolling down a mountain......this is what I would buy if I won the lottery.

I wont even pretend that I know anything about the so-called "boutique" stuff. And you have to do a LOT of homework before you buy, because the list of amps that you should avoid like the plague is a lot longer than the list of good amps.

After you have conquered this challenge, the next task will be getting your playback sound to sound as close as possible to your amp sound! You might want to get an advance jump on this by reading up on mic choices and mic placement.

[Dani Pace]

You aren't likely to find "the one perfect amp," different amps have a lot of variety in the way they sound. Some amps sound (and record) better clean and others are better for distortion. The same is true for speakers. Certain combinations of guitar>amp>speaker sound great while others simply sound awfull. It takes trying a lot of combinations to find the sound(s) you are looking for, and that sound may not work for every situation. In the studio big power amps ar often more of a problem than a blessing. Smaller combo amps with 20-35 watts and a single speaker are a lot easier to record. Without knowing your budget, I'd recomend a Fender Blues Jr with a JBL speaker instead of the stock Fender speaker, this should give you a nice warm blusey tone which will work well in most situations. Add a few pedals and you should be able to get about any sound you want.
Think about your guitar too, different pickups greatly affect the way an amp sounds. As a general rule, single coil for clean, humbuckers for distortion.
Choose an amp carefully, the resale value tends to drop sharply so if you don't like it chances are that you wont be able to get anywhere near as much as you paid for it should you decide to sell it and get something else.

[Lo-Fi Mike]

thanks for your time and helpfull knowledge thus far!

if any one else could agree or offer advise i would really appreciate it.

[RAK]

I only put out my following suggestion as a "Have you considered?" And that is, since you're just looking at something just for recording, have you considered looking into something like the Line6 Pod?

Off hand, I don't know how the prices compare, but it certainly takes up less room, and it sounds good for what it is. But I'm putting it out as another option, not as a replacement for a true Tube, or Solid-State amp.

[Track Rat]

I have a multitude of amps but a few of my favs are my Rivera Pubster which is 25 watts (all tube) into a 10". Granted it's not a one size fits all amp by any means. I am getting great sounds out of a garage sale find, a '62 Silvertone (DanElectro) 1448 which is 3 watts into a 6".

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

Get a tube amp.....but I'm a tube amp guy, so take it for what it's worth.

Peavey Classic 30......my next purchase. I am trying to sell my Vox so I can get this one.

I'm with you - I'll take a tube amp any day over a Solid State one.

We've got three tube amps

A Peavey Classic - It may be a 30, I don't know if they made one smaller than that or not. I don't know the model but it's a little Tube, Tweed-covered practice amp, and it KILLS! Man, I would have never thought Peavey would produce something that sounded so great (keep in mind I had one of the original Backstage amps in the early 80's, so I always equated Peavey with "Saturation" - or as one of my redneck friends described it,"It sounds like a herd of bumblebees".

A Carvin 50/100 2x12" combo - this thing is smoking. It was like $650 or so new. We had to change the tubes that came in it almost right away - one of the pre-amp tubes was microphonic - but Carvin shipped us out a brand new set of tubes overnight for free. So, they took care of us.

We have an Alembic Rackmount tube preamp, and an Ampeg 400 Watt Mono-block Rack mount power amp. - It's essentially the tube power section of an SVT in a 4 or 5 space rackmount case - This combination is the ULTIMATE Bass amp.

We have two Aguilar 1x12" cabinets to use with this amp, and we also have a Mesa-Boogie 4x12" that we can use with either this amp, or we plug the Carvin into it (disconnecting Carvin's internal speakers).


Now, personally I prefer 10" and 8" speakers for recording - they have a tighter low end, and just carry more punch - and just like smaller drums, they are easier to close mic; meaning they deliver a better sound up close for some strange reason.

But for now, we've got mostly 12" speakers in the above cabinets.


Tim

[soundchaser59]

My local dealer told me the PV Classic 30 is the smallest one...... I'd sure like to know what kind of speaker they are putting in the new ones....

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

My local dealer told me the PV Classic 30 is the smallest one...... I'd sure like to know what kind of speaker they are putting in the new ones....

I went and looked, the one we have is a Classic 20. It is a 15-watt Tube amp and has a 10" speaker - no wonder I like that little amp so much!

I don't know how old it is, my brother picked it up used for $130 bucks (I asked) - the thing looks mint to me. I don't think it ever left the original owner's house.


Tim

[Micter]

I like the Crate V32 Palomino for recording a lot. They sell for under 600 bux and well worth it. They sound huge on tape (and live). Another good recording amp is the Carvin MTS 3212. Great clean channel if you like the Fender real clean thing. The lead channel is very much voiced like a Marshall crossed with a Mesa Boogie. It will do clean, blues, crunch, high gain etc. Very versatile! and around $650 for the head and $750 for the 2x12 combo.

[punkin]

Amps...you're on your own...just be warned...you might end up going through the nightmare I've been through and collect several cuz you can't find that one perfect box. Good luck with that

As for speaker cabs, consider a 2x12 loaded with 2 different speakers and equipped with a 3 way switch that engages speaker one, or speaker two or both! Say, a VIN30 and a G12H30 or a Tonker...two very different speakers put into the same box could give up some great recording possibilities.

[jmxdrummer]

Get a tube amp. I had too many problems with my Crate solid state combo amp (2x12). Several months ago I bought a Peavey Valveking 112 tube abmp (1x12) for about $400. I have never been happier. My amps mics well.

[Sloan]

Originally Posted by Micter

I like the Crate V32 Palomino for recording a lot. They sell for under 600 bux and well worth it. They sound huge on tape (and live). Another good recording amp is the Carvin MTS 3212. Great clean channel if you like the Fender real clean thing. The lead channel is very much voiced like a Marshall crossed with a Mesa Boogie. It will do clean, blues, crunch, high gain etc. Very versatile! and around $650 for the head and $750 for the 2x12 combo.

I actually tried one of those Palaminos, the 30-watt version at GC today. It did sound very good without even having to tweak anything really. I would like to A/B the Crate and my Peavey Classic 30 - they sound similar. I own a Classic 30 and it's great, but just imagine putting a better speaker, in - teh tone zone!

I also agree with sticking to smaller amps, you don't need anything big at all since everythings mic'ed up. Makes it easier to move things around too.

Hey, that switchable speaker cab idea is pretty good! You could also do that with say a 4x12 and have all kinds of combinations, or just mic them all at once and blend the ones you like for the ultimate tonezzzz.

[Micter]

I put an Eminence Tonker in my V32. Fantastic match for that amp!

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Sloan

I would like to A/B the Crate and my Peavey Classic 30 - they sound similar.

They sound similar?? Forgive me, but I find that extremely difficult to comprehend...... the idea that ANY Crate could even come close to sounding like a Classic 30??? Apocryphal!

[Sloan]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

They sound similar?? Forgive me, but I find that extremely difficult to comprehend...... the idea that ANY Crate could even come close to sounding like a Classic 30??? Apocryphal!

A lot of people hate on Crate because they've played their cheapass solid state stuff. I used to not even go near the things, but then I played through one of the old V-Series and it changed my mind.

Hell, if it's good enough for Bo Diddley and even Billy Gibbons, it'll probably serve me fine.

Seriously, check out their tube amps - they're a far cry from their solid state practice junk.

[Micter]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

They sound similar?? Forgive me, but I find that extremely difficult to comprehend...... the idea that ANY Crate could even come close to sounding like a Classic 30??? Apocryphal!

Believe it or not the Crate V32 Palomino will stomp a classic 30. Seriously! What you might not realize about these amps is the fact that they are made by St. Louis Music Company which also owns Ampeg. They aren't your typical Crate piles of junk by any means.

I actually own the V32, V16, and V8 all great amps that I find usefull.

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Micter

Believe it or not the Crate V32 Palomino will stomp a classic 30. Seriously! What you might not realize about these amps is the fact that they are made by St. Louis Music Company which also owns Ampeg. They aren't your typical Crate piles of junk by any means.

I actually own the V32, V16, and V8 all great amps that I find usefull.

I didn't know that......I'll try one. I cant resist a good tube amp test drive!!