Monitor hookup

[Venesectrix]

I'm about to get some KRK RP-5's and I'm trying to decide the best way to hook them up. On the back of the RP-5's are TRS balanced, XLR, and RCA unbalanced inputs.

I've got a EM-U 0404 connected to a Behringer UB802. The output from the card is plugged into the tape in on the board with 1/4"(from card) to RCA(into board)cables.

The 802 has a right and left control room 1/4" TS outputs, but the main outputs on the board are "unbalanced" 1/4" TRS.

So, should I just buy two 1/4" speaker cables and plug them in the control room outputs, or buy some TRS cables and connect them to the main outs?

I just want buy some nice cables but only have to do it once

Thanks a million

[scrubs]

If the mixer outputs are TRS (separate left and right), then they should be balanced. Just get some TRS/TRS or TRS/XLR cables and you should be set.

[Venesectrix]

Okay, but then where do I connect the inputs on my 0404?

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by Venesectrix

Okay, but then where do I connect the inputs on my 0404?

You can continue to connect the soundcard to the tape-ins or use one of the stereo channels (3/4 or 5/6) which have 1/4" line ins.

[Venesectrix]

I think I get what you mean, but how do I get the signal from the mic to the soundcard?

here's what I've got so far.

soundcard output--> one of the stereo channels --> TRS main outs ---> back of monitors

Mic --> mixer preamp channel --> output from "???" ---> soundcard input

[Adam P]

I would connect the mixer's main outputs to the soundcard, and the Control Room outputs to your monitors. That's what they're intended for. That way, you can adjust the level of your monitors (by using the Control Room volume knob) without affecting the levels going to your soundcard.

[Venesectrix]

Yeah, I would normally do that but the control room outputs are just TS not TRS. I wish the control room outputs were TRS, because I would definitely use them over the main outs. I'm just worried about the signal quality difference between TS and TRS.

[Adam P]

I wouldn't think you'd have any loss of quality with a cable run of that little length (I'm assuming that your cables won't be more than 10 feet or so). You should be fine.

According to the manual I just referenced on Behringer's website, the Main outputs aren't balanced either, so you wouldn't be gaining anything by using them.

[Venesectrix]

Huh, so would it be okay to just connect 1/4" cables into the balanced TRS inputs on the KRK's?

Is the only difference between 1/4" and TRS just interference reduction? Or are there any Db differences?

[Reggie]

There will be level differences most likely. The XLR and TRS inputs will be expecting a +4 balanced signal; whereas the RCA inputs will be expecting a -10 unbalanced signal, which is apparently what your board is putting out. I would use TS to RCA cables to hook up your monitors. Although I don't really understand the whole "unbalanced" TRS output you are talking about. Why did they put a TRS jack if the signal coming out is unbalanced? Were they out of TS jacks at the factory?

[Venesectrix]

Were they out of TS jacks at the factory?

Hehe, that's what I want to know. Maybe they aren't balanced as in not stereo? Meaning that each output sends either the left or the right channel.

Cause I'm with you, why would they be TRS, but not balanced?

I shoved a flashlight down the control room and main outs and they both look identical. There are two prongs/tips and then the ring. If the control room is supposedly TS shouldn't there only be one tip in the jacks or did they maybe just use a TRS jack and wire it to be TS?

[Reggie]

Huh. Just checked the manual, and it does specify " 1/4" TRS connector, unbalanced" for the main outputs, and " 1/4" TS connector, unbalanced" for the control room outputs. Weirdness. At any rate, sounds like all your outputs are unbalanced.

I have no idea what you mean by this:

Maybe they aren't balanced as in not stereo? Meaning that each output sends either the left or the right channel.

Balanced doesn't really mean "stereo" anyway (not to be confused with the "BALANCE" knob), unless they do things that differently in the UK.

[Venesectrix]

Do you think someone just goofed up on the manual? I only say this because if you download the actual manual for the UB802 on the spec page it says that the outputs are "XLR, electronically balanced"!

*some guy in the spec departments typing this thing up* "hehe, this will throw them off.."

I need a nap.

[Venesectrix]

Okay, I just found something very interesting..
If you go to Behringer's online support page and search for UB802 I found a "Detailed Operating Instructions" page.
Here's what I found in the FAQ...


Does the mixer have balanced outputs?
"The ¼” outputs can be used with either TS (Tip/Sleeve) unbalanced high-impedance connectors or with TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) balanced low-impedance connectors."


also check this out..
UB series Comparison

If you scroll down to the control room outputs, it says:
"Ctrl room outputs (¼" TRS connector)"

I think I'll buy some TRS to XLR cables and see how it goes.

[Venesectrix]

Well, just to follow up I got my Rokit 5's and hooked them up with XLR to TRS cables and they sound great

Thanks for all your help.

Peace.

[tone_aot]

I currently have a behringer mixer that i run everything thru, including the sound going to my monitors. Would there be an improvement in sound if i ran everything thru a mackie mixer instead? I'm especially wondering if the monitors will get a better sounding signal from the mackie monitors. I found a mackie on ebay for $130 and i'm thinking about getting it to replace my behringer ub1002.

[jndietz]

I am considering these monitors as well. My question is:

Did you use a TRS (male) to XLR (female)? Or is a TRS (male) to XLR (male)?

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by Venesectrix

Does the mixer have balanced outputs?
"The ¼” outputs can be used with either TS (Tip/Sleeve) unbalanced high-impedance connectors or with TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) balanced low-impedance connectors."

Yeah, that's a little weird, but not really. I mean, sure the 1/4" outputs can be used with either TS or TRS; but who knows if it is really sending out a balanced signal over the 2-conductor cable? Using a TRS cable does not make anything automatically balanced. Maybe they are saying that the mixer operates balanced when using a TRS cable, and unbalanced when using a TS cable? Who knows.... I guess it could be tested by checking for resistance with a multimeter between ring and sleeve when you plug in a TRS cable. That is typically how an unbalanced signal is sent through a 2-conductor cable, tying the cold to ground.

[RAK]

No matter what a manual says, TRS=balanced, just as XLR=balanced. TS=unbalanced.

Many jacks will accept either a balanced or unbalanced plug, that is fairly standard. If you plug in a TS cable, you're getting an unbalanced signal, because there is only two wires in the cable (signal & ground).

Also, the balanced/unbalanced issue is a different animal from the
-10dBu/+4dBu issue.

You can plug a TS cable into a TRS jack with no problem, but my understanding is it's not good to plug a TRS cable into a purely TS jack. (although I could be wrong about that).

I have a MOTU 828mkII and KRK RP8s. I decided to get TRS-XLR because I wanted to more physically secure XLR connection at the RP8, and I decided I might as well stay all balanced. But (and I think this was pointed out), if you got an unbalanced cable you're probalby not going to be picking up a lot of noise over a short distance.

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by RAK

No matter what a manual says, TRS=balanced, just as XLR=balanced. TS=unbalanced.

Well, that is what you would expect, but their wording and stuff has me wondering if there isn't just an unbalanced signal path no matter what. Wouldn't suprise me from Behri. And maybe you understand this, but to clarify when your above info is applied to just cables, using a TRS cable or XLR cable does not make anything "balanced" if the gear you are hooking up does not run balanced signals.

[Adam P]

Originally Posted by RAK

No matter what a manual says, TRS=balanced, just as XLR=balanced. TS=unbalanced.

Not always. I have a console with unbalanced buss outputs on XLRs.

[RAK]

XLR is a balanced cable. It has 3 wires/pins. Pin 1 (the X) is the Ground, Pin 2 (L) is the Hot. Pin 3 (R) is the Cold. The Cold wire acts as a shield eliminating hum and other noise (from lights for example) that the cable can pick up.

This translates to a 1/4" TRS cable in this way. T(Tip)-Pin 2(Hot), R(Ring)-Pin 3(Cold), S(Sleeve)-Pin 1(Ground). Again it is the Ring connection which makes it balanced.

A 1/4" TS cable is Unbalanced because it only has T(Tip)-Pin 2(Hot), and S(Shield) Pin 1. Because it does not have the Cold wire, it is prone to picking up noise particularly over long distances.

So to clarify. TRS and XLR are "Balanced" cables, but if you hook a TRS cable into a jack that is only wired for unbalanced TS operation, then the Ring doesn't have it's own connection on the jack.

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by RAK

So to clarify. TRS and XLR are "Balanced" cables, but if you hook a TRS cable into a jack that is only wired for unbalanced TS operation, then the Ring doesn't have it's own connection on the jack....

...and your signal is therefore unbalanced as it goes through the TRS cable in this example. I'm sure you understand all this quite well, but I just know there are some people reading this stuff that will go "Hmm, OK; as long as I use a TRS or XLR cable I am running a balanced signal." The balancing act is done inside the piece of gear; the cable is just simple wires and insulation carrying whatever signal you send through it.

[RAK]

My definition of a balanced cable is one that has three wires. A TRS cable has three wires so it's always a balanced cable no matter what it plugs in to. A jack may or may not accept a balanced plug, but the plug remains balanced.

I agree that people need to be aware that using a TRS plug doesn't mean you automatically have a balanced connectin if the jacks are not wired for balanced operation.

Also, in terms of XLR, there is no such thing as an unbalanced XLR jack. While 1/4" cables come in two versions, TRS and TS, XLR input/output jacks are by default balanced.

[Reggie]

I can wire you an unbalanced XLR jack if you like. It will carry an unbalanced signal over an unbalanced XLR cable if you like as well.

In my mind, cables are just wires. 2-conductor or single conductor. A signal is either balanced or unbalanced. I dunno, maybe I do have it wrong. I guess calling a cable balanced is an unrelated issue. Kind of a confusing classification though...

Sorry to keep picking, but I think this deserves some clarification.