Cubase SL3 and external hardware

[BBrian]

I am using Cubase SL3 software with an 8 channel Presonus Firepod Mixer. I have recorded several songs so far, and they have turned out pretty good until I compare them to one of my Pro CDs. I sort of expect that since I didn't spend a fortune to get here, but how much should I expect from my setup? The recordings are clear and mixed well, but they basically just lack punch and volume. I know how to normalize the dry tracks and I have been limiting the mix to 0 dB and running as much compression and make up voume as I can without distortion. The music consists of drums, bass, a few guitars, and a few vocals. I've put the compressor to use on almost everything and feel I am adjusting it correctly. I have watched tutorials lately and they confirmed what I was already doing. So my main question is, are the compressors that come standard with SL3 sufficient to make a kicking cd, or do I need to invest in an external? Also. the Firepod will not support a post mixer external compressor because it hooks up through firewire, so what about a "Universal Audio UAD-1 Project Pak"? I know it's a lengthy set of questions, but I'd appreciate the help. Thanks

[pikingrin]

For starters, tutorials might be nice and all but the best thing to follow is your ears. As to whether or not the compressors are sufficient is all in how you use them. (Check out Southside Glen's free tutorial about compression - check out one of his post's to download it, it's great!!!)

Other than that, what are the differences you hear? It may not be within cubase, i'm using SL and I am still working on things, but it's not too hard to get a really decent mix out of it. (It really depends on your input source-especially mics/preamps since the firepods get good reviews.. and/or your interface as well...) What you ought to try is load up a sample song or two off of a CD into your media player, and then alternate and see what the difference is, according to what you are trying to achieve. Just play around with it and come up with a method to make your mixes sound "commercial", if that's what you really want...

It may take a bit of experimentation, but it's a lot of fun, and once you figure out a certain "something" that works, the feeling of accomplishment is pretty cool too!

Hope that doesn't just piss you off, good luck!

[NYMorningstar]

For starters, you should not be compressing everything. Only use it as a tool tame the tracks of the musicians that can't play their instruments dynamically. You should also not be using normalize.

When tracking set the gain staging so your meter is reading around -18dbfs. When mixing use group channels when needed and mixdown to around -6dbfs while your main fader is at 0db keeping it in 24bit.

Start a new project and import your stereo tracks. Review them for 'necessary' eqing and compression only. Now bring your volume up to around -.2 . If necessary change the sample rate to 44.1 and finally dither down to 16bit.

The Universal Audio UAD-1 Project Pak is a good tool to have.

Give this a try and let me know how it turns out.

[BBrian]

Thanks nymorningstar... I used the "track at -18dB" method on my last recording, although it was just a scratch track with limited drum mics and not nearly as much time invested as my other tracks, it immediately sounded a little more pleasant, it mixes better, and I don't have the clip all the friggin time problem (I was tracking just under 0dB)...... I'm still trying to understand this whole mixdown process though, what you described makes perfect sense as far as the numbers go, so that's the "how"....but I'm still trying to understand the "when (at what point in the mixing process)" you mix them down... and the "what (which instruments?)"....

"When mixing use group channels when needed and mixdown to around -6dB while your main fader is at 0db keeping it in 24bit."

(1)So does this mean limit the master volume to -6dB? Or does that mean make all the tracks run at no higher than -6dB while on say a loud section? Or is there some setting I don't know about where I can adjust the mixdown level?

(2)The other question, by group channels do you mean to mixdown so that there is a stereo guitar track, stereo drum track(all drums), stereo bass track, and then import them on a new project and mix them all together????? Then apply compression and eq where needed...??? So if correct, does this mean to use only mild or no compression at all before the initial mixdown??? And then finally mixdown to -2dB at16bit.....

I'm really not stupid and am usually a quick learner... Just a little lost still.... And that's a lot of work to do in vain, so I want to make sure it's not...

Here is my current method....

(1)Tracking (now at -18 dB )

(2)EQ as needed

(3)Apply Compression as needed (vocals, bass, and drums... and maybe very mild on guitars) I understand this part is sort of tricky and more about the ear, so this is just something I am working on, but I am starting to get the hang of it... And I know what I am listening for now...

(4)Mixdown to 16 bit (all tracks at once, vocals, bass, guitars, drums, etc., compressed about 2:1 and 10db make up gain...?)

The volume and clarity are pretty good, and it's a farely quick method, but from what I hear I am missing some steps that I hope will give me a more pro sound....

Now I have a feeling step 4 and maybe even step 3 is where I start going wrong.

Yes I have looked in the newbie section and have not found anything remotely helpful in this area.... Anybody, feel free to rip me a new one! (NYMorningstar if you have more time to kill, sorry to be a pain in the ass, and thanks for the patience)....

Thanks

[xstatic]

What youa re asking is kind of a tough one. You are comparing your work to those of professionals who have all of the time, skill, equipment, tools etc... at their disposal. It's really unfair to judge yourself based on the great number of differences. It does not require excellent equipment to get an excellent sound, but more requires a certain amount of skill and experience. Having those tools however does have an impact upon final end product. In almost all cases a great album recorded on subpar equipment would be an incredible album with all of the better tools. In the end though, most of your sound comes from your own knowledge, skill, and experience level.

In order to get better I would reccomend experimenting and researching as much as you can. In addition to this however, one of the most valuable tools is learning form someone else that you respect and who does work that you like. I would seriously recomend that you contact some people in your area whos work you think is better than your own. See if you can sit in on some sessions. Buy them lunch, offer to do some of their "dirty" work for them etc... and they may be much more prone to allowing you to watch and even teaching you some things. The learning process can be greatly expedited when you spend enough time in the company of others who are already a further down that road when you are

[NYMorningstar]

Q1 - you should leave about 6db of headroom when mixing the tracks together for the mastering process.
Q2 - If you route your tracks to group channels there is no need to open a new project. I use eq, compression, delays and effects on the tracks before the group channels and only when needed but you need to experiment.

Mixdown to a stereo file in 24bit. Open up a new project and import that file to a stereo track. This is where you are going to do your mastering. You should have 6db of headroom here to play with yes? This is where you will be applying your final tweaking with eq and raising your gain with compression and maybe a limiter. This time export this to 16bit and use dither.

There's no hard rules and strategies depend on the music at hand. I hope this helps.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by BBrian

the Firepod will not support a post mixer external compressor because it hooks up through firewire,

Where did you hear that? I use outboard compression with a M-audio firewire 410, and I have no problems!

[BBrian]

Ok thanks guys,

Thanks for the tips xstatic, believe me if I knew of someone I would be their best friend... I guess I need to go out and make some more music biz friends... But I do have a great ear, and am very capable when it comes to technical and music, but then again this whole mixing for a cd is a lot different then just making a live band sound good... But nobody misunderstand me, I know this is not something you can tell me how to do through a message and you can ask my girlfriend and my banker, I am constantly experimenting.... But thanks for the tips and I will definitely keep my eyes out for someone with some experience to befriend...

Thank you NYMorningstar, much help, that clears it up... I'll try it out....

Carter, honestly, I talked to some local music store salesmen (yeah I know, probably not the best idea) and I just searched online for something that would run in series with firewire and for some reason never came across what you mentioned, but I will check out the one from m-audio as you mentioned... Thanks for the recommendation....

Guys, just a little side not for those of you who are interested. I sing lead for a band called Telic in Alabama... You can hear some of our music at
www.myspace.com/telic or www.getthedoit.com/portfolio/telicband

The ones on the Getthedoit site our fairly recent and it's pretty safe to say that's the best quality I have gotten out of this setup so far... But none of that is using the above mentioned technique of course.... So they are likely to get better soon....

I am not happy with the recordings on our myspace due to the fact that I didn't understand the compressor when I mixed them and I know a few of them are overcompressed or just flat out blurry..... Some of the other, i just don't like my vocals and have sence retracked them... Just in case any of you listen to them... The song "I'm Not Broken" was recorded in a pro studio...

Anyway, if anyone has an opinion, by all means feel free to share it.....

[NYMorningstar]

My wife's opinion..."Hey I like those guys! Get him to get you some free tickets and backstage passes when they come up to NY, I want to meet those guys!" What does she know? She's from Texas

That's some nice work there BBrian.

[BBrian]

Haha, yeah what does she know!.. But hey, we're not picky, we'll take compliments from a Texan anyday.... So please tell your wife the band says Thank You.... So in your opinion, is it safe to say I'm on the right track... and I don't know if this is a question you have an answer for, but.... Given my equipment, is there still a lot of quality I can squeeze out of it? Don't be too nice!.... Either way man, I really appreciate all the help and input and the compliment.... It means a lot, Thanks

Brian