Mic Pre Kit's. Worth it?

[TragikRemix]

Hey guys, im looking into buying a mic pre kit from Here does anyone have any experience with these?

Just to start, if you buy the chassis, PSU and 1 kit, you get a nice discount and it comes to about $625 or so, depending on the pre you choose.

each additional pre is quite cheap.

im good with electronics, the kit would be no big deal at all to build. i wish i knew how they really sounded.

there's 4 models; an API type, a Jensen type, a Neve type, and something else, i cant remember. check it out.

i'd like to do it, as i am in the market (soon) for a good pre(s) and a hi end mic (which im still researching).

[tarnationsauce2]

I have never used one, or seen one in person. But they do have a good reputation. It's definately great stuff.
I'd try posting your question over here: http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/index.php
I know some people over there have constructed these and use them.
And if you do buy one, that site will probably be best for asking questions during construction (and Seventh Circle's forums).

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Yeah very good rep but it's cheaper really to find a good project and source the parts yourself, particularly if you have an understanding of electronics.

Group DIY (the prodigy-pro site linked above) is an incredible resource.

Still if you don't want the hassle the seventh circle pres are supposed to be very nice. i know HR BBS member ComingSecond uses some and speaks very highly of them.

I'm just finishing off one of these:

http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/g9/g9pd.htm

For kits you might also try Hamptone:

http://www.hamptone.com/newkits.htm

and JLM Audio:

http://www.jlmaudio.com/#

[rsolinski]

Yep....All the 7th Circle stuff sounds good. After that you may want to try rolling your own...312 style pre's and power supplies are fairly simple once you get into the DIY thing..You can buy blank API cards pretty cheap on evilbay and load them up with what you want...Going this route you can easily build pre's for 200-250$. I have a bunch with different opamps and transformers for different "flavors"...Solder on my friend, you won't regret it!

Ray

[Reggie]

The 7th Circle stuff is great IMO. Takes the hassle off of sourcing the parts (so you can get right to the fun part!), and you have great support at the SCA forum. I have a couple A12s, a couple J99s, and a couple N72s. I would start with the A12s if I were you. They seem to be the most versatile, and not very difficult to build.

[chris-from-ky]

Michael Wagener is working on Skid Row's album right now and he's got some nice things to say about the SCA stuff. What more do you need than a nod from a producer of his caliber.

As for building them, I'm not good with electronics so, I'd want them to make them for me. If you can build them, they'd be worth $625 for sure.

Read this: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...w+at+wireworld

[sweetnubs]

shit, skid row likes it!

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by sweetnubs

shit, skid row likes it!

Who else ya gonna trust?

[BigRay]

I have a hamptone now, (HVTp2) and I have to say I am amazed at how well this thing performs...I have it racked beside my Pendulum Audio MDP-1s, and though the pendulum has more pretty lights..sonically, I cannot tell them apart! Hamptone-=the heat!

[TragikRemix]

thanks alot for the responses guys, i think im going to go this route, when i have the extra cash of course.

thanks for all the links.

[MadMax]

I'll probably catch some hell for this, but I just built 4 of the A12's and 2 N72's. Cost me $2,300.00. They sound a little better than my A&H MixWiz pre's. Maybe a different flavor is a better descriptor.
Point is- The A&H pre's don't sound BAD.
The SCA's supposedly sound GOOD.
So what's the difference between NOT BAD and GOOD worth to you?

My feeling is if you've got money set aside and you want to spend it on pre's, you can't go wrong with the SCA stuff. But it's not a huge sonic difference. It's not even a big one.

I really believe this is an area that most of us Home Recer's shouldn't get into. It's a money pit and there are lots of other areas in recording that will make a much bigger improvement in our sound than high end preamps. And most of them don't cost anything.
I read a really good allusion the other day that went something like this;
"I put GOODYEARS on my car because (insert famous driver's name here) uses them and he won the (insert famous race here). Well, what's that gonna do for me?

[soundchaser59]

I'm sure it's good stuff (the kit) BUT.....

It's only as good as the rest of the stuff you are connecting to it. Is your mic as good as that pre? Is your board or your recorder as good as that pre?

If you are just doing basement projects like me, using the "run of the mill" budget (meaning under $1000 discount cash price) AT's, SP's, AKG's, EV's, MXL's, CAD's, Senn's, etc.....and it might be a little while before you upgrade those things......then you might want to consider a prelim kit to build a little low voltage mic pre from PAIA Electronics, about $100 bucks for the whole thing, dual channel, with rack mount case.

It's good enough for my basement worx, but if you are going to charge clients for what you do, then I would go for something better.....

[MadMax]

If you get into charging clients for your services, then you need something with name recognition, not a SCA kit. They want to see names like Neve, API, Avalon, etc.

[Reggie]

Didn't you hear the part about SKID ROW!!!!!!

But seriously, you are probably right. I would probably be happy with the sound of a decent mid-level mixing board such as the MixWizard, or an Onyx, or a Soundcraft. But I do like having the different "flavors" to pick from, and it also is nice to not have to wonder "hmmm, I wonder what those really fancy pres sound like...." Plus it was kind of a fun accomplishment to build them myself. You can certainly buy much crappier pres for $340 (the cheapest one is like $150 though). Another nice thing about the SCA rack is you can buy the pres one at a time as you get the doe. With a mixing board, you gotta pony up more money up front.

[MadMax]

Another nice thing about the SCA rack is you can buy the pres one at a time as you get the doe. With a mixing board, you gotta pony up more money up front.

Yeah, but do the math. You said you could get ONE SCA preamp for $625 or so. By the time you fill up the chassis with different flavors, you've spent $3,000.00 for 8 preamps.
You could buy a 16 channel MixWiz for $900 or less.
Or you could spend $6,000.00 for 16 channels of SCA.

[Reggie]

I guess I didn't realize you could get the mixwiz so cheap, but yeah I know the math goes in favor of a mixing board pretty quick. The SCA, OSA, API, JLM, and other 3-letter preamps are definitely for the more eccentric ear.

BTW--not trying to argue anything,but you could get an 8-channel SCA rack loaded with the C84's for about $1500. No transformered fun happiness, but those are definitely some very clean/transparent pres.

[BigRay]

If you build a business on integrity and your work speaks for you, and you set the course, the clients will come to you no matter what gear you have. This name recognition bullshit is fucking silly. My clients dont give a shit about a namebrand. They ask for my skills. If they want particular gear, they can go buy it. Maybe it is different in the rock and roll realm, but here in Classical Live work, names dont mean dick. the moment I would begin to compromise my own values and what pleases my ears is the day I need to leave the business. Choose the clients with depth, and let the name whores go elsewhere. TECHNICAL PROFICIANCY is the key, not "names"

Thank God I dont have to deal with that shallow nonsense. Ive got "boutique" gear, but no clients have ever asked for anything by name. last time I checked, I was the engineer. I call the shots on what to stock my racks with...

Originally Posted by MadMax

If you get into charging clients for your services, then you need something with name recognition, not a SCA kit. They want to see names like Neve, API, Avalon, etc.

[boulty]

I really want some of the seventh circle kits, never read a bad word about them (aslong as the soldering has been done well).

They are on my wish list but that is after I get some lynx converters.

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by BigRay

If you build a business on integrity and your work speaks for you, and you set the course, the clients will come to you no matter what gear you have. This name recognition bullshit is fucking silly. My clients dont give a shit about a namebrand. They ask for my skills. If they want particular gear, they can go buy it. Maybe it is different in the rock and roll realm, but here in Classical Live work, names dont mean dick. the moment I would begin to compromise my own values and what pleases my ears is the day I need to leave the business. Choose the clients with depth, and let the name whores go elsewhere. TECHNICAL PROFICIANCY is the key, not "names"

Thank God I dont have to deal with that shallow nonsense. Ive got "boutique" gear, but no clients have ever asked for anything by name. last time I checked, I was the engineer. I call the shots on what to stock my racks with...

Ray, I couldn't agree more, in a perfect world. It's that building the business part that's hard, and while it sucks, the reality in some crowded markets is that before your credits can speak for you, or your clients can spread the word, your equipment list has to do a lot of the talking. It may not mean dick about your skills, but before you can demonstrate those skills you've got to have the honey that attracts the bees. However, I think SCA N72 (Neve 1073 Clone) probably works. Most folks who've heard of a 1073 know they don't make em anymore.

[BigRay]

Originally Posted by Robert D

Ray, I couldn't agree more, in a perfect world. It's that building the business part that's hard, and while it sucks, the reality in some crowded markets is that before your credits can speak for you, or your clients can spread the word, your equipment list has to do a lot of the talking. It may not mean dick about your skills, but before you can demonstrate those skills you've got to have the honey that attracts the bees. However, I think SCA N72 (Neve 1073 Clone) probably works. Most folks who've heard of a 1073 know they don't make em anymore.

Maybe it is different , but here in my line of work, noone gives a shit. They ONLY care about results. the guys that have the skill get gigs. the guys who suck dont.Gear aside. Boy am I glad I work in Classical music.

[TragikRemix]

well, i have neither talent, nor knowledge, but i have the will to learn and the gear to work with. i dont give a rats ass about names either, i want the best sound for my buck. i'm going to get the SCA rack and PSU, and one kit for now. the hell with it, maybe i'll just get the kit and make a wooden chassis/box thing and a power supply for it. if im really happy and i want to build 7 more preamps, then ill get the chassis and psu.

i agree about having the name brand gear. its my call right? my client (1), is a good friend of mine, and since i have never recorded someone else 'for real', im doing his band for free. they have a few songs and it's no pressure. their current demo is an acoustic guitar recorded through the 1/8 line in, a computer mic, and midi drums.

im using DFH drums, with a roland vdrum kit, and going DI on bass and guitar. it can't sound totally bad, especially since i've decided not to use my acoustic kit with mics. there's two vocalists, one who somewhat sings (more like cry's) and another one who screams (he can use a 57...)

they're not complaining about not playing through u47's and avalons because what i have is what i have... as it is, i placed a monster musicians friend order and rushed my purchase on ns10m's to be ready for them, (costing me around $1300 within one week-thank god for platinum payments..)

great river makes a neve clone, i wonder how the SCA one stands up against it... I know two people with them, i must build mine and do a comparison test...

[Soundmind??]

If your client is pleased with your work, they won't care if it says Radio Shack, Sears, K-mart, or whatever on the stuff in your rack in most cases. There are those who have been around enough studios to recognize names that have demonstrated quality, and they may be hesitant to hire you if you don't have a good reputation with the gear you use. It will be impossible to match the workmanship of a good studio with a good engineer though. That being said, I've read some good things about SCA.

[Minion]

There are also Many "NON-Kit" pre amp projects that you can do....

There are Quite a few Pre-amp Schematics and PCB Designs on the Net that you can use to Etch your own PCB"s and Just source the Parts yourself ,which is what I"m doing with my "Green Pre" Project.....

The Green only costs between $50 and $75 per Channel to build and the Info avaiable on the net is very extensive and you don"t need to be an electronix genius to build one as I have never built anything like this before and Every one who has built one says that the audio quality rivals some of the best Mid to high end Pre"s.....

Here is a Pic of my Not quite complete Pre amp, I just have to wire up all the switches an XLR"s and LED"s and Mount it in the Box and test it and Make a Heatsink For my PSU....




Cheers

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Minion

Here is a Pic of my Not quite complete Pre amp, I just have to wire up all the switches an XLR"s and LED"s and Mount it in the Box and test it and Make a Heatsink For my PSU....




Cheers

Nice lookin' work

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Of course another reason for the DIY route is that it's good fun not to mention fulfilling.

It's nice to work with gear that you know intimately, if you've built it yourself you'll know every nook and cranny inside the box and if something does go wrong with it you have a good chance of being able to fix it yourself.

In fact "it's cheaper" is probably the last reason I grow my own.

Yes the 'green' is an incredible pre cosnidering what it costs you in parts. The circuit is based on the pres found in the Amek Mozart console, very clean.

My current project is the Gyraf G9, a 2 channel tube pre. High voltage and transformer balanced; just valves, transformers and passives in the path (although there are some semiconductors in the PSU). Just waiting for my front panel and I'm planning on wiring up the torroids today.