Tips for Recording HEAVY Distorted Guitars

[Newbie-Doo]

My sons metal band wants me to record a few of their songs this weekend and I'd appreciate any tips you can give to help save me time and headache.

I went to one of their practice sessions and when they stated playing I couldn't hear anything but garbled noise. After 15-20 minutes of tweaking each amp and convincing the bass player to tune to "normal" pitch I was able to get this mass of distortion to actually sound like music.

The bass player was much happier and was grooving along, but the guitarists (especially the rythm guitarist) were not happy that they lost a lot of fat and harmonics off their sound. I told them we could record two tracks for each of them (one their way, one my way) and see which comes out best.

Will I be able to take the walls of mud and EQ them into something listenable, or should I push them to clear up their tone for recording? Mojo is important so I don't want to tweak their sound so much they end up playing unhappy.

HELP....

[Sloan]

I just got done working on a "heavy" song for my friend's band and encountered a similar situation, except they insisted on feeding the guitars direct. WTF.

Anyway, I did have to do some heavy EQ'ing, but it ended up sounding way better than I thought I could get it to sound. I'm sure if we had mic'ed everything and taken more time, then the results could have been better, but sometimes you just have to work with whatever you've got.

Playing live, you can keep a lot of those thicker guitar sounds on your amp, but when it gets a mic right up to it, you better roll those lows down and clean up your signal because it is gonna be just noise to the mic.

I think the idea of doing two seperate mixes is a good idea to let them hear for themselves. It's hard to understand unless you've actually mic'ed an amp and listened, but once you do, it makes a lot of sense!

The most difficult parts is just getting the instruments to stay defined in the mix. Kick & Bass / Bass & Distorted Guitars. I had to cut a lot of low end (up to 150Hz sometimes) to get the bass to really shine through and help carry the song better.

I'm not gonna go into detail about EQ'ing - there is literally tons of info on that around here.

[Dogman]

Generally with heavy distortion, you want it to sound a bit less distorted than they might like, at least initially. If you layer 4 tracks...2 each side, it will build up pretty quickly. I've gotten decent sounds with just 2 distorted guitars...one each side. If they are decent players, try 2 or 3 each side. It will become very haevy sounding as teh layers build up, so be careful. They have to be tight.

[Red Dog Studios]

try turning the amp volume down a bit and get a clear distortion sound and then use something like a 57' and mic it in the center of the cone (for a brighter sound) or between the edge and the center (for a little bit deeper tone). Also, mess around with compression and limiting settings, cause these can help alot in some cases. you could also put up a room mic to mix in, if only just a little to get a bit of "life-like" sound. It all really depends on taste.


Zeke

[legionserial]

Pretty much what everyone else said. Ease off on the distortion a bit, but how much depends. for what I'm doing I like to hear the saturation a bit more. However for other stuff I ease right back. I usually record heavy distortion at a reasonably low volume, not too low. Well I don't have it blaring anyway. Placement of the mic (assuming you are micing) makes a lot of difference, but where you'll want to put it is circumstatial. From my limited experience, closer to the centre of the cone will give you more bite. You need to experiment.

I usually record 2 guitars left and 2 guitars right, this will fatten the sound a bit, and if you eased off on the distortion it will make the distortion sounds a little heavier, minus the noise. Also it makes it seem a little less grainy and a bit smoother.

You'll possibly be getting mud from the low end elements fighting with each other, the kick drum, the bass guitar and the guitars. I usually roll off the low end on the guitars from about 150hz down, but thats subjective.

Also found sometimes that giving the bass a slightly more midrange presence helps open up the low end for the guitars a bit more if they need it. It all just depends on whats going on at the time.

[scrubs]

Required reading for recording distorted guitar: http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Basically, get it to sound good/right when tracking to save yourself headaches while mixing.

[peopleperson]

I'm going to mirror a popular sentiment that's very right on the money.

You need to concentrate on getting them to sound as good as they can before you even begin recording. If they have terrible tones and terrible sounding equipment, all you're going to do is capture those terrible sounds, and it's gonna be a hellish mix no matter what. There's the factor of having shitty gear in the first place, and there's a factor of being able to tweak your instrument and amp. I've run into plenty of situations where someone had a killer guitar and amplifier but it didn't matter because they had no clue how to squeeze good sounds out of it. I've also run into situations where a player has had a mildly quality instrument and amplifier and it didn't matter cause they were great players regardless of equipment, and beyond that, actually knew how to tweak the amp correctly.

Bottom line, make them sound as good as they can well before you even bother recording.

Check my myspace link below. I just mixed a track for an incredibly damn good local metal band called Mouth of the Architect, and honestly, it was a piece of freaking cake because they sounded so good to begin with. Try to bear in mind how bad the myspace player blows.

[Newbie-Doo]

Well, tomorrow is D-Day...wish me luck!

I'll post up their web site so you can critique.

[Newbie-Doo]

5 hours and nothing to show for it. I can only record two tracks at a time and they can't keep time..so when they record their individual parts they are having a hard time playing together...woe is me...

[TragikRemix]

maybe go direct in, and then set the output into the effects, and let them hear the effects while they record, but you have a nice clean track to work with.

follow me? i didnt word it so great.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

I can only record two tracks at a time and they can't keep time..so when they record their individual parts they are having a hard time playing together.

Well, this is far from an ideal solution, but you might have to try live mixing them, recording direct to a stereo mix. Practice record a few bars, see what needs tweaking, make the tweaks, repeat as necessary. When you have things basically where you need them in the two mix - including any manual mixer riding notes for yourself as necessary, then try for a 21st-centruy version of "direct to disc" .

G.

[gcapel]

I wouldn;t DI a guitar period. Its going to sound like crap and tell the guitar player he's an idiot. THe Senn 421 is the ticket. I don't know the type song it is but a nother cool heavy distorted guitar tracking idea is have guitar in one side of the mix and bass on the other during verse parts, and then on the chorus place the bass in center and two guitar tracks left and right but not duplicating guitar tracks(record two or mic two stereo).

[Keiffer]

with only two inputs available at a time and skills that need improvement, this will be very tough going.

I'd recommend the band play together, mic and mix to a stereo track. Find a very, very short section to use to get the mix right. do this until you get the best mix you can acheive.

it won't be fun...

kp-

[Superhuman]

Originally Posted by gcapel

I wouldn;t DI a guitar period. Its going to sound like crap and tell the guitar player he's an idiot. THe Senn 421 is the ticket. I don't know the type song it is but a nother cool heavy distorted guitar tracking idea is have guitar in one side of the mix and bass on the other during verse parts, and then on the chorus place the bass in center and two guitar tracks left and right but not duplicating guitar tracks(record two or mic two stereo).

I respectfuly disagree, DI guitar can sound great! It just depends on the gear you use. Tone is subjective after all. I DI my Triaxis through a 2:90 and a Palmer speaker sim and it kicks ass. Also, not many people DI so it's easier to get a unique tone, which can be important for some players. I agree that DI sounds crap with crap gear. I have miced up the Triaxis through a 2:90 an a bunch of cabs, sure you get that immense feeling air moving from the power of it when you're standing in the room but that doesnt translate across a microphone... at least not anymore than DI'ing it up 'properly'. Another good thing about DI is that it's much easier to keep your tone over multiple takes and multiple sessions. Don't get me wrong, micing amps is and will always be the staple of guitarists (and rightly so), just don't dismiss DI'ing too.

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by Superhuman

I respectfuly disagree, DI guitar can sound great! It just depends on the gear you use. Tone is subjective after all. I DI my Triaxis through a 2:90 and a Palmer speaker sim and it kicks ass. Also, not many people DI so it's easier to get a unique tone, which can be important for some players. I agree that DI sounds crap with crap gear. I have miced up the Triaxis through a 2:90 an a bunch of cabs, sure you get that immense feeling air moving from the power of it when you're standing in the room but that doesnt translate across a microphone... at least not anymore than DI'ing it up 'properly'. Another good thing about DI is that it's much easier to keep your tone over multiple takes and multiple sessions. Don't get me wrong, micing amps is and will always be the staple of guitarists (and rightly so), just don't dismiss DI'ing too.

I totally respect your opinion as well. I would love to hear a triaxis. I;ve always heard about them but i highly doubt they got one. Again maybe i can get my hands on one some day. I guess I am always in the mind frame of using tube amps and a lot of folks trying to use line 6 direct boxes. I tried every line 6 product and it all sounded like garbage to me.

[LIMiT]

Recording direct will give you more of a defined, front-end sound, but it will lack 'punch', as there is no air pushing the mic, as it would be captured from micing a guitar cab.
A combination of both a direct signal and a miced signal is the way to go.
(also,..do a search for re-amping)

+1 for turning down the distortion if multi tracking guitars. If the gain knob is at 10 - take it down to 7, or even 6. Focus on the mids - mid-lows. Anything below 120Hz usually gets rolled off, as the bass guitar fills in the low end.
The relationship between the bass and guitars is key in getting that 'wall of distorted guitar'.

Personally, I rarely hard pan any guitar track, but trust your ears. Only you know what sounds you want to hear.
(Keep a CD of a song that contains a distorted guitar sound you like,..and A/B it to your mix.)

Hope this helps,

-LIMiT

[TragikRemix]

I tested my idea yesterday and it really proved useful. i didnt mess with anyone's mojo, but i got my clean track...

[GreenDank]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

5 hours and nothing to show for it. I can only record two tracks at a time and they can't keep time..so when they record their individual parts they are having a hard time playing together...woe is me...

I wouldn't even goof with it. These guys need to practice to a click before they can even think about getting to a decent recording. Then, after they're ready, they should head to a studio (or someone's home studio) in their hometown that other metal bands have used to get halfway decent recordings. People spend their entire days trying to get good metal recordings. And given kids' desire to sound just like some band that is big right now, they'll give you grief from the time you set up mics to the time you master it that it doesn't sound just like Atreyu or whatever Hot Topic is promoting right now.

[killmachine]

some EQ'ing on amp for recording purposes will help alot I've found. I've also found that assuming I know what I'm doing, don't know how to eq there amp right for the situation. Of course the same could be said about my self.

Also mic placement can clean alot of it up, the right mic in the right spot will help. Along with individual tracking. Like most bands I'm sure they practice loud and generally speaking want to turn it up loud to try and find that perfect spot volume wise. It really all depends on if you want to layer individually or mult-mic or whatever you as the engineer wants to do.

I was recenetly doing a band where I just didn't like they're guitar sounds. I fidelled with it enough to get something what I wanted and they were happy with. I doubled miced each guitar then took the same line but tracked and additional line and ran direct for those same lines. So with 2 guitars it ended up being 6 tracks of basic guitars total. I was pretty pleased with the end result sounded real fat and I didn't have to over compensate in anyway. I then tracked the solo type stuff seperate

[Newbie-Doo]

Originally Posted by GreenDank

I wouldn't even goof with it. These guys need to practice to a click before they can even think about getting to a decent recording...they'll give you grief from the time you set up mics to the time you master it that it doesn't sound just like Atreyu or whatever Hot Topic is promoting right now.

You sure hit the nail on the head. All I could think was I just blew my whole Saturday recording these guys just to hear "Gee dad, that doesn't sound very good." I almost said "THAT'S BECAUSE YOUR BAND SUCKS!!" But I held my tongue.

Now back to the mixing...I've got two fat and somewhat muddy guitars, each on their own track. Any suggestions on how to get each into their own "space"? No pain, no gain, right?? hehe

[Keiffer]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

...All I could think was I just blew my whole Saturday recording these guys just to hear "Gee dad, that doesn't sound very good." I almost said "THAT'S BECAUSE YOUR BAND SUCKS!!" But I held my tongue.

yeah... I know this scene.

[ermghoti]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

I almost said "THAT'S BECAUSE YOUR BAND SUCKS!!" But I held my tongue.

My line: "yep, that is pretty awful. Unfortunately, it is exactly what you sound like."

Or: "Here's what we're gonna do, I'm going to put a different mic on a better amp, with some other guy playing guitar. That should fix it."

Finally: "These are scratch tracks. We'll record individual tracks, then delete the scratches. Then, I'll delete the individual tracks, and it will be all better."

True stories.

[TragikRemix]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

You sure hit the nail on the head. All I could think was I just blew my whole Saturday recording these guys just to hear "Gee dad, that doesn't sound very good." I almost said "THAT'S BECAUSE YOUR BAND SUCKS!!" But I held my tongue.

Now back to the mixing...I've got two fat and somewhat muddy guitars, each on their own track. Any suggestions on how to get each into their own "space"? No pain, no gain, right?? hehe

constructive criticism, remember? tell them they need to practice before the reocrdings will sound good...

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Newbie-Doo

Now back to the mixing...I've got two fat and somewhat muddy guitars, each on their own track. Any suggestions on how to get each into their own "space"?

It sounds like you're saying two *different* guitars?

First, EQ them seperately to get rid of the mud. You may need to high-pass/low-shelf each of them if you have a bunch of low frq mud. Then, one guitar at a time, use the ol' parametric sweep to find the honking resonant frequency for each track and cut that that frequency by a few dB. Cutting those honker frequencies does wonders for cleaning the mud out of a guitar track and giving the track it's best face forward.

Chances are - with two different gits and two different amps - that those freqs were not the same for each track. By doing that you're already halfway home to givingthem individual character. Next, listen to each one and see which one "sounds" like it trends a bit fuller-sounding or mellower-sounding, and which one trends a bit sharper-sounding or brighter-sounding. Then do a little differential or tongue-and-groove EQing to emphasize those strengths and those differences. For example, on the fuller/mellower one, just a slight EQ bump in the bass (~100-300Hz, to taste) combined with just a slight scooping of the same area on the brighter/sharper one. Similarly, if needed, just a slight bump of the sharper one somewhere around 4.5kHZ - 6kHZ (again, to taste) with a corresponding slight deadening of the other one at the same frequency. Careful on the high-end boost, though; use that only if needed. If the guitar is already very strong in that area, any more boost there could get grating; that'd be a judgement call on your part. However, the cut on the other one could still help in the differentiation between the two.

After this EQing is done, re-balance their relative volumes as necessary.

G.

[Newbie-Doo]

Originally Posted by ermghoti

My line: "yep, that is pretty awful. Unfortunately, it is exactly what you sound like."

HAHAHAHA!! TOO TRUE!