allen & heath v's DMP3 pre

[shmackdaddy]

G'day,
just wondering for drum OH"S would a DMP3 be a better mic pre, than the pre's on my A&H mixwiz?
also as I have never used any outboard gear before whats the best way to connect the pre? Inserts?
I am running sonar 5 thru delta 1010> WZ 16:2DX
cheers,

[Rodger Hartlett]

just wondering for drum OH"S would a DMP3 be a better mic pre, than the pre's on my A&H mixwiz?

The A&H pres are quite decent. then again from all reports the DMP3 is a very good performer as well. i don't think the difference is anything to leap out from.

also as I have never used any outboard gear before whats the best way to connect the pre? Inserts?

inserts is good.it's better than taking it from post fader as there are less buffer amps involved which means less circuitry even though unbalanced is all that may be available.
i mean try it that way with the A&H before spending more $ on something which may not really need.

[MadMax]

There is no audible difference between the two. Save your money. The best way to hook up is mic>A&H channel>direct out>Delta 1010. Unless you mod the A&H circuitry, you'll have a post fader send to the Delta 1010. This can be good or bad, but you'll probably find it useful. Think of your A&H as a bunch of channel strips. You've got tone controls, input level & fader control as well as an insert.
You can use the aux sends for monitoring or you can use an aux send to your Delta and use the main outs for monitoring. It's really veratile.

FWIW- I just built 4 SCA A12(API Clone) & 2 N72(Neve Clone) preamps and the jury's still out on how much better they are than my MixWiz.
My MixWiz 16:2 cost me $900 for 16 pre's and all of the mixing and routing capabilities.
6 SCA preamps cost me $2300...
I think the SCA's have a certain something, but not $2300 worth for sure.

[Minion]

MadMaX: You should maybe look into building a "Green Pre amp" as they are only about $75 a Channel to build and have a sound that Rivals some Pre"s in the $1000 per channel Range....They are very Clear and Clean all through the Frequency Range (20hz to 40khz) and do not tend to color the sound at all....

I can not confim this as Mine aren"t quite finnished yet but every one I have talked to who has built them Raves about them and I have read several reviews were they bested Neves and even the most expensive Foscurite Pre"s and at $75 per channel you can"t go wrong......

so if you are into the DIY thing and want some Good Pre"s at a Price that rivals the cheapest pre"s with a quality that rivals some of the best pre"s then it might be something worth looking in to.....


Cheers

[littledog]

Originally Posted by MadMax

There is no audible difference between the two. Save your money. The best way to hook up is mic>A&H channel>direct out>Delta 1010. Unless you mod the A&H circuitry, you'll have a post fader send to the Delta 1010. This can be good or bad, but you'll probably find it useful. Think of your A&H as a bunch of channel strips. You've got tone controls, input level & fader control as well as an insert.
You can use the aux sends for monitoring or you can use an aux send to your Delta and use the main outs for monitoring. It's really veratile.

All depends how you like to work. I prefer using the pre-fader insert points to send to the recording device. This lets me solo or mute any track while listening to the performance without disrupting what is going to the recorder.

The advantage to MadMax's way is it lets you ride the faders and use the internal board eq. You have to decide which is more useful for the way you work.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by littledog

All depends how you like to work. I prefer using the pre-fader insert points to send to the recording device. This lets me solo or mute any track while listening to the performance without disrupting what is going to the recorder.

The advantage to MadMax's way is it lets you ride the faders and use the internal board eq. You have to decide which is more useful for the way you work.

I agree, but modding the boards for pre fader inserts is a PITA. Each board has to be removed to get to the resistors. And each board has 14 knobs and 14 nuts and the ground buss wire has to be snipped, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Minion

MadMaX: You should maybe look into building a "Green Pre amp" as they are only about $75 a Channel to build and have a sound that Rivals some Pre"s in the $1000 per channel Range....They are very Clear and Clean all through the Frequency Range (20hz to 40khz) and do not tend to color the sound at all....

I can not confim this as Mine aren"t quite finnished yet but every one I have talked to who has built them Raves about them and I have read several reviews were they bested Neves and even the most expensive Foscurite Pre"s and at $75 per channel you can"t go wrong......

so if you are into the DIY thing and want some Good Pre"s at a Price that rivals the cheapest pre"s with a quality that rivals some of the best pre"s then it might be something worth looking in to.....


Cheers

Today 14:46

I built the highly touted SCA's and I'm saying that many people, pro's included, say they are high end pre's. But as of yet, I haven't heard enough of a difference to justify the $$$. Except for a little "character", I can't hear much of a difference.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I built the highly touted SCA's and I'm saying that many people, pro's included, say they are high end pre's. But as of yet, I haven't heard enough of a difference to justify the $$$. Except for a little "character", I can't hear much of a difference.

If you can't tell the difference between these and A&H you have a monitoring chain problem or room acoustic issues.

[littledog]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I agree, but modding the boards for pre fader inserts is a PITA. Each board has to be removed to get to the resistors. And each board has 14 knobs and 14 nuts and the ground buss wire has to be snipped, etc. etc.

Your Allen&Heath has post-fader inserts????

Are you sure someone didn't already do a mod?

Mine are pre-fader. Right out of the box.

So are most other manufacturers.

[heroics321]

Si, unless someone modded it before you received it, they'll be pre-fader. Doing the modifications is a pain, and requires some care, but the layout of the board makes it a breeze in the scheme of things. Once you get it open, everything is there. I can barely read schematics, and I managed to find the correct jumpers (after a bit of trial and error on channel 1). Kinda wish I bought a newer model that didn't require soldering/desoldering, but the price was fantastic ($700 for a factory second). The routing options are so straight-forward as-is, but to be able to customize them... I never thought twice about the purchase. Finding a desk to fit it on, that's a separate story.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Middleman

If you can't tell the difference between these and A&H you have a monitoring chain problem or room acoustic issues.

I never said I couldn't tell the difference. But for almost $2500.00 I could find a lot of other things to spend the money on for "bang for the buck" differences.
BTW- my monitoring chain is RME Fireface A/D>Sonar 5PE> RME Fireface D/A>JBL LSR 28P's.
My room may be less than perfect in the low end, but I have installed floor to ceiling bass traps in all 4 corners and some HF damping on the walls behind the monitors and the side walls as well as some hanging panels from the ceiling to reduce LF & flutter.

Littledog and Heroic- Sorry about my bad. I meant the direct outs, not the inserts.

[heroics321]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Littledog and Heroic- Sorry about my bad. I meant the direct outs, not the inserts.

It's all good, you obviously love your Heath very much, so I can't hate you

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I never said I couldn't tell the difference. But for almost $2500.00 I could find a lot of other things to spend the money on for "bang for the buck" differences.
BTW- my monitoring chain is RME Fireface A/D>Sonar 5PE> RME Fireface D/A>JBL LSR 28P's.
My room may be less than perfect in the low end, but I have installed floor to ceiling bass traps in all 4 corners and some HF damping on the walls behind the monitors and the side walls as well as some hanging panels from the ceiling to reduce LF & flutter.

Littledog and Heroic- Sorry about my bad. I meant the direct outs, not the inserts.

Hi MM,
Did you get the N72s up and dialed in? Last I heard you just had the A12s up. Anyway, I think for a lot of people coming from decent mid quality pres, there's a period of buyers remorse with expensive pre purchases, followed by the acceptance that it's a game of inches, and that the inches are worth it and add up in the long run.
I seem to see people often fall into one of two camps after getting thier new pres..... they either gush about it like they've found the holy grail, and anything less is now junk, or they are a little dissapointed at the modest gain for the big cash outlay. I expect the latter group is a little more honest and objective. I guess there's a third group, the ones who have calibrated thier expectations through experience, and appreciate the incremental gain for what it is. Anyway, I hope the SCAs grow on you as you complete projects with them.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I never said I couldn't tell the difference. But for almost $2500.00 I could find a lot of other things to spend the money on for "bang for the buck" differences.
BTW- my monitoring chain is RME Fireface A/D>Sonar 5PE> RME Fireface D/A>JBL LSR 28P's.
My room may be less than perfect in the low end, but I have installed floor to ceiling bass traps in all 4 corners and some HF damping on the walls behind the monitors and the side walls as well as some hanging panels from the ceiling to reduce LF & flutter.

Littledog and Heroic- Sorry about my bad. I meant the direct outs, not the inserts.

K, sounds like you have the basics covered. Don't know what to tell you but the 7th circles get a lot of raves. It is hard to spend $2500 on preamps, I know but like Rodger says above, its a combination of inches that add up. I too would rather spend that same money on something like an LA2A or maybe the new Portico stereo compressor, a lot more color for the money and you can hear it more obviously. In the end the pursuit of CD quality will leave you broke..... but possibly satisfied with your sound.

[MadMax]

The N72's were working all along. It was just a case of operator misinformation. The trim controls work differently than on the A12's.
On the A12's it's a true trim ctl. But on the N72's it's an output gain control, so turning it all the way down will allow no output.

I'm still in the listening phase of these new pre's. Who knows, I just might get used to hearing them and then realise that everything else sux in comparison.

[Middleman]

The real test is the layering gel a good preamp provides meaning multiple tracks will have a focus and cohesion whereas lower end preamps leave you fighting EQ or plugins to make thinks come together.