1972 Yorkville YSC-8

[RideTheCrash]

Hi guys, I was in a local thrift store the other day (not by choice), and I found they had this big old speaker column used as a PA speaker years ago.

Now, I know I always stumble across old crap, but it was pretty cheap enough. I asked if it worked but the employee didn't know anything and ran off. I went today equipped with a speaker cable with a 1/4" jack on the end and hooked up some crappy radio they had sitting there. Sure 'nuff it worked and sounded fine. No audible rumbling type sounds or anything.

Now this thing is huge. It must be 5 feet tall. I haven't hooked it up (at home) yet because I need to go pick up some speaker cable first. I opened it up. It has 6 speakers. 1 is missing, 1 is ripped around the edges and 1 is all taped up (probably loose, pfft). I only bought this thing because I wanted something to run vocals through if I have people come over and jam. I don't intend on taking this anywhere and as long as it makes sound, I'm fine. I used to pump out vocals jamming by using 4 little stereo speakers back a couple of years ago (not a great idea), so I'm fine with this old thing tucked away against a wall on it's side.

You can check it out here:
http://www.yorkville.com/products.as...46&id=297#ysc8
Scroll down to YSC-8.

You guys ever hear of "whizzer cones"? The two this thing has are in good shape, but they have like a little cup shape coming out of the middle, it's pretty weird, but I guess the idea is to boost higher frequencies or something crazy like that.

Anyway, my question is...IF I want to get some new speakers (maybe...) is there a specific kind of rating I need? I assume just any 8 ohm speaker would be okay? I'm not sure about the "whizzer cones", if I even bother with them, and I'm not sure what a "crossover" is. I've heard of it...but I don't know a lot of speakers.

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by RideTheCrash

Anyway, my question is...IF I want to get some new speakers (maybe...) is there a specific kind of rating I need? I assume just any 8 ohm speaker would be okay? I'm not sure about the "whizzer cones", if I even bother with them, and I'm not sure what a "crossover" is. I've heard of it...but I don't know a lot of speakers.

I would guess yeah, just about any 8" would work. Those are pretty low power, 200W program, so they don't even have to handle a lot of power.
You could do all the calculations and figure out a good driver to go in there, or you could buy anything and slap it in there, sounds like you aren't too picky for this job.

Check the hole size, though. The mounting size of 8" speakers aren't all the same.

Yeah, the whizzers are probably HF drivers. The crossover divides the sound into high and low bands, and send the highs to the whizzer, the lows to the woofer. It's a bunch of components, probably on a little circuit board.

The crossover makes sure each driver only gets frequencies it is good at reproducing.

[RideTheCrash]

Ohh, that's what a crossover is, yeah I knew that, guess I just didn't know the name.

I'm not really too picky, yeah. I took a peek inside the hole of the missing speaker with a flashlight and I can see a bunch of the speaker wires and the input jack. It has a little white box with little tangs. I forget what they are called...but it looks like something you'd connect a wire to.

I'm checking a local store for prices on 8" speakers, but I'll check the hole mounting first. Thanks.

[Lt. Bob]

whizzer cones are actually mechanically crossed over so the electronics might limit the lows to those speakers but the whizzers are not electrically seperate from the speakers they're on.

[boingoman]

OK, I got curious after Lt. Bob's response, googled "whizzer cone". I'll be the first to admit I had no idea what they were. It's just a cone on a speaker, to extend the HF response. The whizzer gives the speaker more suface area near the middle to radiate HF. The idea is to make it more full-range. The HF gets damped quicker, the result is that an ever smaller portion of the speaker cone near the middle is used to generate HF. The higher the frequency, the smaller the radiating area is. The whizzer adds more surface area near the middle, and it is thin, so it can vibrate more easily at higher frequencies. Very clever.

Like Lt. Bob said, the crossover in that box divides the signal going to the whizzer/8" combo speaker and plain 8" drivers, to keep excess LF out of the whizzer-equipped speakers. But there is no electronic crossover between the whizzer and the 8" speaker it's mounted on.

Thanks, Bob, that is definitely my "learn something new every day" moment for today.

[RideTheCrash]

Alright, I think yesterday when I was searching for information, it said the two whizzers have capacitors to cut down on bass response. For fun I took out one speaker and it was stamped April 10, 1972, which makes the serial number correct: 2040034.

I haven't noticed any sort of circuitry (would there even be any?), but if there caps for the two speakers, I haven't seen 'em.

A local store got back to me through email as to what they have, they have 100 watts, 200 watts, etc. I think the column itself is 200 watts, but does this become an issue or being under/over powered depending on the speaker wattage?

[boingoman]

The whole speaker cab is rated at 200W program, figure 3-400W peak tops, 300 to be safe with those ancient drivers. Speakers of the same impedance will split the power evenly.

So.....

Each of those 6 speakers is roughly gonna get 50W max (300/6) if you push that thing to it's limits. Don't worry too much, anything that can handle that much or more will be fine. If you really wanted to go cheap, you can get some 8" speakers from Parts Express for less than $20 per, for example. The rest of the drivers in that box are gonna be the weak links, being 30+ years old.

Seems like the caps would be strapped right across the speaker terminals, but they could also be on the jack plate or something.

[RideTheCrash]

Alright, I understand that, but I should be okay with either 100-200 watts? I assume that just means the amount the speaker *can* draw.

And by the drivers do you mean the speakers?

[boingoman]

Yes, yes*, and yes. Have fun, I love putting stuff together, firing it up, and seeing what happens. Especially when it's cheap, and useful, like this.


* Yeah, the power rating is the power the speaker can handle, not what it needs to work. Since the originals are probably 75W(400W peak/6 speakers= 65W per speaker, plus a little safety room), any speaker that can handle that much or more will be fine. The originals would poop out before the new higher-rated ones.

[MadAudio]

Nice find! It's cool that Yorkville has that archive so we could see what you're talking about.

But what the hell is wrong with being in a thrift store? As you've discovered, you'll never know what you might find in one.

[RideTheCrash]

Alright, I'll try to make a trip downtown when I have some free time to check out their speakers. The local music store might be better though...

And yeah, I like how they have that archive, but they are missing some stuff. My mixer and my currently-being-repaired bass amp aren't on there. I'm going to finally get some speaker cable today if I can find time where I'm not watching my daughter or acting like a taxi.

As far as the thrift store, we have 2 big ones. The one I got this at I don't particularly like. Whenever I'm in there, which isn't often, they have mostly junk stuff that is just home stereo stuff, old video games, TVs, etc. Some old keyboards too, I think my fiancees brother picked up a tiny keyboard organ thing that works using air or something once at that store. The other thrift store we went to that day didn't have anything, except this real cool sounding Hammond Rhythm II organ.

[RideTheCrash]

Which reminds me, I would have taken off the speaker grill in the store, but I thought it was screwed in. See, there was two screws at the top not all the way in, and I later realized it was to hold the missing Traynor logo that should have been there. The actual grill is held on by velcro I think. So my test to check if there was any speakers was to move my head up and down the column...I definitely noticed the "whizzer" cones too as I got to the middle of the column.

[RideTheCrash]

Haven't been able to make it to a music store yet and I think everyone is closed today as it's a long weekend here.

I cranked the speakers a lot today and I DEFINITELY need new speakers. These old ones just can't take it. Especially the low end.

I emailed Yorkville about the cab, but I think the way the speakers are working are like this:

Speakers: bass (missing)- mid (blown)- high - high - mid (blown)- bass.

I'm going to try to take some pictures soon. Also, what determines this cab to be 200 watts? The little circuit board that is supposedly somewhere in there? Just curious.

[RideTheCrash]

I'm probably wrong on the bass - mid - high thing I listed. I realized the outer speaker is actually newer. Somebody replaced the original one. I was taking the speakers out to take pics and noticed the cone was different. I can't get the clip off the new one, it looks bent or something. I left the taped up speaker in (tape comes right off though).

I didn't see much in there, as you'll see. There is the jack and the little box thing which is probably the crossover. The rest is just wires. Anyway, sorry for the quality, the digital cam is gone for the week, so I took stills from a camcorder:

The crossover? There is some sort of value written on it, but I can't read it.


The cab with most the speakers pulled out:


Looking straight at the jack:


Better angle:


Just a bunch of speaker wires:


Killed speaker. Hard to see, but it's ripped along the outer edges and it's in rough shape.


The "whizzer" cones. I noticed the clips for the wires were right on the metal part of the speaker, unlike the rest.


Another killed speaker someone taped up:


Newer speaker (someone else replaced it):


Back of speakers. April 10th, 1972.


Tape on other killed speaker I just noticed:


Foam in the corner (something to do with reflections or something?). The other side is missing a piece.


I guess I forgot a pic of the grill, but whatever.


Hey Boingoman, what did you mean by I could do all the calculations to figure out which the best speaker would be? Just referring to the watts or something else? Also, since I'm just using an old receiver for now to power this thing, and it's only 170 watts, I assume I'm not getting *as* much power I could. I really have no idea what kind of difference it makes.

[Tim Brown]

A Whizzer cone is a separate cone that puts out highs.
NOTE: (4+) means you have to buy four or more at once.

Non-Whizzer 8" speakers $9.80 each.(4+)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-260

A BETTER idea would be this:

Buy 5 of those 8" speakers.

One 8" Horn lens for $5.90:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=270-308

One Horn Driver for $10.90:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=260-097

You still need to buy a 2-way passive crossover, but this would give you five mid-woofers and a Horn in that box....but it might be more than you want to spend in fixing this thing up. You would mount the woofers in the five lower spaces and the horn lends in the top.
Or, you could use 5 of those woofers and perhaps one whizzer in the top.

The 8" speakers need to be wired in series or series-parallel, since these are 8-ohm speakers. (Go to the Soldering D.I.Y Electronics link in my signature - I have some info about wiring cabinets.)

They do sell Whizzer type speakers.

60-watt/85-watt Max. @ $21.75(4 +)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-045
50-Watt/80-watt Max @ $17.55 (4 +)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-379


Tim

[RideTheCrash]

Are these speakers crappy? I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars of course, but I don't want something really cheap either. They look pretty decent to me, but I don't know a lot about speakers.

I figured I would stick to the original idea of where the speakers went...everything is already wired in series or whatever and I can't really tell where everything is going. Now, is the idea of a horn for higher frequency purposes?

I'm guessing if I got new speakers and put them where the current whizzer cones are, the speakers would automatically have a cut bass response due to the way the cab is already setup. I'm unsure if any stores are open today because of the long weekend, and I'm not really sure what to expect price wise. There is a music store with some speakers and an electronics store farther away with some speakers (with the cheapest speaker being 25 bucks).

I wouldn't mind ordering online from Parts Express, except I usually avoid nowaday because the border charges are insane. At least last time I ordered something. Also, is there a specific type of speaker I need. Like, I wouldn't want speakers made for guitar cabs would I? Are they supposed to be PA speakers? I'm pretty clueless.

Thanks for the info.

[Lt. Bob]

Didn't you say you didn't care much aboput how it sounds? If so ..... then those PArts Express speakers will be just fine.

[RideTheCrash]

That I did, Bob. I just like to check these things out.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RideTheCrash

Are these speakers crappy? I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars of course, but I don't want something really cheap either. They look pretty decent to me, but I don't know a lot about speakers.

I figured I would stick to the original idea of where the speakers went...everything is already wired in series or whatever and I can't really tell where everything is going. Now, is the idea of a horn for higher frequency purposes?

I'm guessing if I got new speakers and put them where the current whizzer cones are, the speakers would automatically have a cut bass response due to the way the cab is already setup. I'm unsure if any stores are open today because of the long weekend, and I'm not really sure what to expect price wise. There is a music store with some speakers and an electronics store farther away with some speakers (with the cheapest speaker being 25 bucks).

I wouldn't mind ordering online from Parts Express, except I usually avoid nowaday because the border charges are insane. At least last time I ordered something. Also, is there a specific type of speaker I need. Like, I wouldn't want speakers made for guitar cabs would I? Are they supposed to be PA speakers? I'm pretty clueless.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, you want PA or Musical Instrument speakers, but not guitar speakers - they will have too much of a limited range. Also, you have to keep in mind - this thing isn't going to put out a ton of low end - it's a vocal cabinet meant to cover about 150hz to around 5khz. Not a real wide range, but they will work good for band practice vocals - but they won't be "crisp" sounding.

Those $9.80 speakers won't be bad - they'll be on par with whatever are in economy speaker cabinets (meaning Yamaha, Carvin, etc) these days. Actually they will work just fine for this application.

I wouldn't attempt to just replace one or two of them - I'd go ahead and do all of them - it will be worth it. Just get the cheapest musical Instrument grade speaker you can get - You can't use home stereo speakers for this, they are made from different materials than PA/M.I. speakers, and the suspension and support can't take the abuse of a "live" input (like something coming through a microphone) for very long.

You have to keep in mind - about 90% of the speakers made and used in North America - maybe even the world are actually manufactured by Eminence. Any time you see these same type of black-framed speakers - they are manufactured by Eminence. Eminence is the Largest speaker manufacturer in the world.


Tim

[RideTheCrash]

Okay, I figured I was just going to replace them all anyway, because I don't want to have some that are 30+ years old just being weak links. When you think about it, the only original cones in useable shape right now are the whizzers. Two are ripped and one isn't original.

That's interesting about Eminence, I had to replace a 15" bass amp speaker a year and a half ago and it's an Eminence. 150hZ-5kHz sounds pretty limited, but with what I have in that cab now, it sounds better than you would except, and definitely sounds like a much wider range than 150-5. Maybe the whizzers give it that sound. I'm definitely either buying some sort of whizzer cone or maybe a horn like you suggested. This is only for vocals pretty much if I have people over to jam, so I'm not too concerned about it sounded that 'crisp'.
As for the home stereo speakers, that is what I used to use about 3-4 years ago when I had people jam in my basement. I had about 4 of them hooked up to a receiver. Wasn't great, but I didn't manage to kill them.

I'm wondering about finding these kind of speaker locally at about that price. I'm thinking the music store will probably just have guitar speakers. Maybe I'll buy online...

[Tim Brown]

Heck, look online for a Canadian distributor - I'm sure there are some up there. I'm sure there's something like Parts Express in Canada, you just need to find it, that's all.

Tim

[RideTheCrash]

I'll look around some more. I'm asking on a local forum if anybody knows, but so far no avail. The local electronics store I mentioned has some speakers, but I'm not sure what exactly they are good for. I doubt they are guitar speakers. Ever heard of Blaster speakers by Legend? That's the cheapest they have. The most expensive is Pioneer Poly Cone something or other.

[RideTheCrash]

Oh yeah, also, whatever two speakers I put in the middle are going to have a cut bass response (due to the caps I don't see apparently cutting the response), so I'm wondering if put the normal speakers in there is worth or, just buying new whizzer cones? I don't know. It still looks like I'll have to order online right now.

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Yeah, you want PA or Musical Instrument speakers, but not guitar speakers - they will have too much of a limited range.
Tim

Guitar speakers have as wide a response range as any other speaker, many times they go higher, actually. Guitar speakers usually go to at least 5K, some as high as 7-8K. Lots of LF and midrange drivers roll off well below that, they will be crossed over anyway, so they don't need to go very high. There may be reasons not to use a guitar speaker in a PA box, but frequency response isn't one of them. In this case, one factor would be cost- any 8" guitar speaker is going to be more expensive than most other types of 8" speaker.

And whether or not a speaker will live or die in a particular situation depends solely on how much power it can handle and how hard it is pushed. There really isn't any difference between home stereo speakers and PA speakers, except HS speakers usually just can't handle enough power.


RTC- some whizzers have decent response up to 15K and beyond, you'd definitely notice a diference, I'd say. You could also get all regular speakers, and some piezo tweeters. Those can just be paralled across one or two speakers, no crossover needed. Just drill a couple holes for them, and wire them up, maybe with a resistor and a cap, and off you go. Those are like $2 apiece.

Again, it really isn't going to matter what 8" speakers you get, I almost gaurantee they will outperform the originals. Low-end PA stuff from that era was pretty much crap when it was brand new, much less 34 years old. Even pro PA gear was crap, at that point. There wasn't any, really. Those whizzer cones were pretty slick, though. And pretty smooth-sounding, apparently.

ps= by calculations I meant using the thiele-small parameters to find drivers suitable for the box size and type. Maybe an exercise in fun or learning, but not really important for this project, probably.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by boingoman

Guitar speakers have as wide a response range as any other speaker, many times they go higher, actually. Guitar speakers usually go to at least 5K, some as high as 7-8K. Lots of LF and midrange drivers roll off well below that, they will be crossed over anyway, so they don't need to go very high. There may be reasons not to use a guitar speaker in a PA box, but frequency response isn't one of them. In this case, one factor would be cost- any 8" guitar speaker is going to be more expensive than most other types of 8" speaker.

And whether or not a speaker will live or die in a particular situation depends solely on how much power it can handle and how hard it is pushed. There really isn't any difference between home stereo speakers and PA speakers, except HS speakers usually just can't handle enough power.


RTC- some whizzers have decent response up to 15K and beyond, you'd definitely notice a diference, I'd say. You could also get all regular speakers, and some piezo tweeters. Those can just be paralled across one or two speakers, no crossover needed. Just drill a couple holes for them, and wire them up, maybe with a resistor and a cap, and off you go. Those are like $2 apiece.

Again, it really isn't going to matter what 8" speakers you get, I almost gaurantee they will outperform the originals. Low-end PA stuff from that era was pretty much crap when it was brand new, much less 34 years old. Even pro PA gear was crap, at that point. There wasn't any, really. Those whizzer cones were pretty slick, though. And pretty smooth-sounding, apparently.

ps= by calculations I meant using the thiele-small parameters to find drivers suitable for the box size and type. Maybe an exercise in fun or learning, but not really important for this project, probably.

It was late and I was tired whenI wrote that (I had only slept 3 hours since midnight on Friday.) What I meant to say was that guiatr speakers are " voiced" differently than PA speakers are - they tend to be designed to break up more (Ever heard a Green back used as a PA speaker? Ugh! Talk about nasty...actually Celestion made PA speakers for a few years and those sounded like "poo" (I'll be clean, this isn't the dragon cave. ) as well.

I would have to disagree, HS speakers materials simply can not handle live signals as well as a PA speaker can. Go look and see how many PA speakers you can find with a foam surround or a rubber surround. I haven't seen one yet. Repeatedly run a live Kick drum through a 100 watt home stereo speaker, and through a 100 watt PA speaker and see which surround gives out first.


Tim