Hi! Just thought I'd get your thoughts on my home studio!!!!

[superspit]

Hi people!! Great site.......learnt heaps!
Can I run my 5hit past you?
OK? Here it is.
Hasn't cost me a lot......but it's capable of doing anything that I may want!
Everything is based around two Delta 44's and Cool Edit Pro 2.1 .....just that I stopped using it's 'mixdown' system in favour of using an 'external' desk.....more fun.....and in my experience works better!! (for me anyway!!)
Hope pics aren't too dark for you....flash up'n'broke!!!
Please ask questions, if u like,....it's often easier that way.
Superspit.

[pandamonk]

Question 1: If you've learnt heaps, why are you mixing in the corner?

Question 2: ....why do you have the monitors at 45 degree angles when thy should be 60?

Question 3: Wheres the acoustic treatment?

Question 4: What mics do you use etc?

Question 5: What do you record/mix?

can't think of anything else atm

[superspit]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Question 1: If you've learnt heaps, why are you mixing in the corner?

Question 2: ....why do you have the monitors at 45 degree angles when thy should be 60?

Question 3: Wheres the acoustic treatment?

Question 4: What mics do you use etc?

Question 5: What do you record/mix?

can't think of anything else atm

Answer 1: blue with 47 grey stripes
Answer 2: they have a mind of their own
Answer 3: some old geezer stole them
Answer 4: Ahhhhh.....a reasonable question!!
I have 2 Shure 57's, one Brngr C1 & B1, a Nady Dynamic, and a brown box turned upside down.
Answer 5: Hard rock to slow synth balads.
Quote 6: mmmmmm............me neither!!
Thanx for responding Pandamonk, appreciate it.
Regards,
Superspit.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by superspit

Answer 1: blue with 47 grey stripes
Answer 2: they have a mind of their own
Answer 3: some old geezer stole them
Answer 4: Ahhhhh.....a reasonable question!!
I have 2 Shure 57's, one Brngr C1 & B1, a Nady Dynamic, and a brown box turned upside down.
Answer 5: Hard rock to slow synth balads.
Quote 6: mmmmmm............me neither!!
Thanx for responding Pandamonk, appreciate it.
Regards,
Superspit.

Sorry but wtf? Don't you care that you can't properly hear what you're mixing? If you mix in the corner(where the bass builds up)you'll hear a lot
more bass in your mixes and will EQ to suit that environment, then if you take the mix elsewhere it will have no bass. Your mixing position should be an equallateral triangle with the speakers, meaning that they should be angled 60degrees, if not then your stereo imaging will be screwed and you'll again mix to suit that environment, then if you take the mix elsewhere the stereo imaging will be scrwed. Thirdly, acoustic treatment is installed to even out your rooms frequency response so that again you can properly hear what you are working with. A flat room response with flat freq. mics and flat freq. speakers will give an accurate representation of what you are recording, and this will allow you to(along with experience)mix for any environment. And no, EQing doesn't solve the flat response problem. Because in just a couple of inches the rooms response totally changes. So if you EQ you have to keep your head in the exact position that you placed your mic to get the frequency response.

[timboZ]

superspit what do you use the oscilloscope for?

[Eric54]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Sorry but wtf? Don't you care that you can't properly hear what you're mixing? If you mix in the corner(where the bass builds up)you'll hear a lot
more bass in your mixes and will EQ to suit that environment, then if you take the mix elsewhere it will have no bass. Your mixing position should be an equallateral triangle with the speakers, meaning that they should be angled 60degrees, if not then your stereo imaging will be screwed and you'll again mix to suit that environment, then if you take the mix elsewhere the stereo imaging will be scrwed. Thirdly, acoustic treatment is installed to even out your rooms frequency response so that again you can properly hear what you are working with. A flat room response with flat freq. mics and flat freq. speakers will give an accurate representation of what you are recording, and this will allow you to(along with experience)mix for any environment. And no, EQing doesn't solve the flat response problem. Because in just a couple of inches the rooms response totally changes. So if you EQ you have to keep your head in the exact position that you placed your mic to get the frequency response.

LMFAO!!!I love it when guys like you think that every corner sounds the same and speaker position has the same effect in every situation. Just so you know....they don't. If you want to get into physics of sound the density of the walls, floors, size of space and temperature will all effect sound waves.

I bet you're room is so PRO it's not even funny. Acoustic treatment all over the walls, a really cool angle tool to help get the 60 degree angle perfect and still a mix that is no better than someone without acoustic treatment and without a 60 degree monitor angle.

Talk the talk but can you walk the walk. Link up some MP3's of some cool stuff that you have mixed in your highly acoustic every frequency can be heard properly room.

Superspit, I have no acoustic treatment what so ever and monitor angle varies. What this guy is talking about does not apply in every situation. As long as your results are good then you are doing things right.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by Eric54

LMFAO!!!I love it when guys like you think that every corner sounds the same and speaker position has the same effect in every situation. Just so you know....they don't. If you want to get into physics of sound the density of the walls, floors, size of space and temperature will all effect sound waves.

I bet you're room is so PRO it's not even funny. Acoustic treatment all over the walls, a really cool angle tool to help get the 60 degree angle perfect and still a mix that is no better than someone without acoustic treatment and without a 60 degree monitor angle.

Talk the talk but can you walk the walk. Link up some MP3's of some cool stuff that you have mixed in your highly acoustic every frequency can be heard properly room.

Superspit, I have no acoustic treatment what so ever and monitor angle varies. What this guy is talking about does not apply in every situation. As long as your results are good then you are doing things right.

Ok play some music, and walk to the corner of your room. Hear it get bassier?! Lol my rooms are nowhere near finished yet, but when they are, and I have some mp3s i'll be sure to post them. Yes i know the density of the walls, floors, size of space and temperature all effect it, but there are some basic principals to acoustics. And this is what I'm advising on. Bass builds up mostly in 90degree corners, so an easy solution is to mix away from the corner. Also adding bass traps in the corners with flatten the whole rooms bass response to some degree. Yes every rooms different, but i'm sure if you told an expert(ethan need your help here)the dimentions of the room, and what it is made of, ie plasterboard walls, wooden flooring, whatever, they'd tell you at what frequencies and where in the room there are peaks and nulls. These exprts will also tell you not to mix in the corner and to add bass absorbtion in a small bedroom(im guessing)studio. Pro studios don't just build these wierd shaped rooms etc just for the hell of it! They do it to get a flat response so they can mix for any room. Ohh and yeh, i will have some acoustic treatment in my room. My control room will be around 7' x 8', which means it'll be shit for mixing unless i add absorbtion.

[fraserhutch]

Sorry, but you're wrong.

I love it when guys like you think that universally-accepted principles are inapplicable.

The density of the walls is part of the acoustical treament of a room, not that I'd expect you to understand that. and the temperature?? Get real. That is a constant - it affects the speed of the sound wave, not how it reflects and diffuses sound.

Mixing in the corners - not a good idea. But hey, have fun in your ignorance.

Originally Posted by Eric54

LMFAO!!!I love it when guys like you think that every corner sounds the same and speaker position has the same effect in every situation. Just so you know....they don't. If you want to get into physics of sound the density of the walls, floors, size of space and temperature will all effect sound waves.

I bet you're room is so PRO it's not even funny. Acoustic treatment all over the walls, a really cool angle tool to help get the 60 degree angle perfect and still a mix that is no better than someone without acoustic treatment and without a 60 degree monitor angle.

Talk the talk but can you walk the walk. Link up some MP3's of some cool stuff that you have mixed in your highly acoustic every frequency can be heard properly room.

Superspit, I have no acoustic treatment what so ever and monitor angle varies. What this guy is talking about does not apply in every situation. As long as your results are good then you are doing things right.

[Eric54]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Ok play some music, and walk to the corner of your room. Hear it get bassier?! Lol my rooms are nowhere near finished yet, but when they are, and I have some mp3s i'll be sure to post them. Yes i know the density of the walls, floors, size of space and temperature all effect it, but there are some basic principals to acoustics. And this is what I'm advising on. Bass builds up mostly in 90degree corners, so an easy solution is to mix away from the corner. Also adding bass traps in the corners with flatten the whole rooms bass response to some degree. Yes every rooms different, but i'm sure if you told an expert(ethan need your help here)the dimentions of the room, and what it is made of, ie plasterboard walls, wooden flooring, whatever, they'd tell you at what frequencies and where in the room there are peaks and nulls. These exprts will also tell you not to mix in the corner and to add bass absorbtion in a small bedroom(im guessing)studio. Pro studios don't just build these wierd shaped rooms etc just for the hell of it! They do it to get a flat response so they can mix for any room. Ohh and yeh, i will have some acoustic treatment in my room. My control room will be around 7' x 8', which means it'll be shit for mixing unless i add absorbtion.

I'm not disagreeing with you on bass building in corners. That's a fundamental concept. My point is you don't need a treated room to mix well as long as you know how the room reacts and how it translates elsewhere. I know this because i have mixed in several insufficent rooms many times. A treated room does make things easier, but, you can mix in an insufficiently treated room as well. Just my 2 cents. There's no right or wrong in my opinion... Having a treated room doesn't mean your mixes will automatically come out sounding better either... It's all in the hands of the experience you hold.

[Eric54]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

Sorry, but you're wrong.

I love it when guys like you think that universally-accepted principles are inapplicable.

The density of the walls is part of the acoustical treament of a room, not that I'd expect you to understand that. and the temperature?? Get real. That is a constant - it affects the speed of the sound wave, not how it reflects and diffuses sound.

Mixing in the corners - not a good idea. But hey, have fun in your ignorance.

Read my comment above....I'm not arguing fact and theory... Throw some of your mixs up also... everyone talks, but, no one walks...

[Eric54]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

Sorry, but you're wrong.

I love it when guys like you think that universally-accepted principles are inapplicable.

The density of the walls is part of the acoustical treament of a room, not that I'd expect you to understand that. and the temperature?? Get real. That is a constant - it affects the speed of the sound wave, not how it reflects and diffuses sound.

Mixing in the corners - not a good idea. But hey, have fun in your ignorance.

Oh and i think you're wrong about temperature...Disprove this...(smart guy)...

In acoustics, however, sound waves usually don't encounter an abrupt change in medium properties. Instead the wave speed changes gradually over a given distance. The speed of a sound wave in air depends on the temperature (c=331 + 0.6 T) where T is the temperature in oC. Often the change in the wave speed, and the resulting refraction, is due to a change in the local temperature of the air. For example, during the day the air is warmest right next to the ground and grows cooler above the ground. This is called a temperature lapse. Since the temperature decreases with height, the speed of sound also decreases with height. This means that for a sound wave traveling close to the ground, the part of the wave closest to the ground is traveling the fastest, and the part of the wave farthest above the ground is traveling the slowest. As a result, the wave changes direction and bends upwards. This can create a "shadow zone" region into which the sound wave cannot penetrate. A person standing in the shadow zone will not hear the sound even though he/she might be able to see the source. The sound waves are being refracted upwards and will never reach the observer.

[MCreel]

Superspit......where'd you get that desk? I like it. Looks spacious and has good places for all your gear.

[fraserhutch]

I don't want to hijack your thread, so I am not going to argue woith Eric here, here obviously knows better than all of us.

So, forget acoustics. You don't need them. Decent albums have been made with poor acoustics, which by the logic above implies you should suffer under the same conditions.

Forget about how to maximize what room you have. Again, you don't need to - you can learn to mix in a subway tunnel if you;re good enough.

And when you find that you hate the sound of your room/space when micing, look to always buy more/better gear, because that HAS to be the problem, (cause it can't be the room).

So, you close mic everything and wonder why your tracks don't sounds as large and big as the big boys. Solution - buy better gear.

Anyways, what do we know?

[superspit]

Originally Posted by timboZ

superspit what do you use the oscilloscope for?

Woah....in one way I'm sorry for causing conflicts....but conflict often results in learning things.
As I'm a little new to this site, not so new to recording, I'll ask where the best place is to "Walk the Walk"...ie...play you some of my stuff, or portions thereof!, if you wish.
My present setup is probably based more on ergonomics/space at this stage, the final sounds that I'm getting from this rig make me and my listeners very happy....and that, I thought, is all that really matters.(?)
I use my scope, I have 2 of them, to monitor my low end. I find myself sometimes mixing down at very low volume levels, so the scope assists me in 'seeing' my bass freq comparitively with other recordings. I look for a certain 'picture', within that scope. By doing this I find that 9 times out of 10, the next morning when I playback, it tends to work very well.
Just 'my' method. I record drums and vocals very successfully with no sound insulation, I admit that I EQ alot of my final mixes, but only minimally.
My setup is 90 % single/multitrack, rarely recording more than 1 instrument at a time.
I love it!!....and trully appreciate what you guys are saying, from ALL sides of the engineering/scientific/financial/theoretical/practical fence!!
Kindest Regards,
Superspit.

[cello_pudding]

i'm no acoustical genius, but wouldn't reflections off of a parallel wall resulting from positioning monitors on a flat wall facing a flat wall be worse than monitors near the corner?

and though the monitors are in the corner, he is not listening in the corner, and the monitors are not facing the corner to directly reflect the wavs. though i guess sound vibrates in all directions, the majority would be forward and not back against the wall.

[superspit]

Originally Posted by MCreel

Superspit......where'd you get that desk? I like it. Looks spacious and has good places for all your gear.

Hey McCreel,.....the desk?...just got that from a local IKEA type furniture shop, but it wasn't IKEA. It's modular and u can add to it. It's called a 'Lewis office desk'. Other manufacturers may call it a different name.(?)
They are made in China, like a lot of things...LOL!
Chrome and Beachwood finish. Yeah, works well for me.

Thanx for your interest!!
Superspit.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by superspit

Woah....in one way I'm sorry for causing conflicts....but conflict often results in learning things.

Dude, you shouldn't apologise, some people are just looking for a reason to tear it out of each other; not cool, and not the reason these forums exist. As for the generally accepted principles...well, I know MY stereo has a Graphic Equalizer....if something is too bassy i tend to lower the bass. Simple; yet effective.

The point is that you've taken some good steps on the road to what is, in its nature, an incredibly varied and deep hobby. How can one person catagorically define a 'good' sound? Its as ridiculous as trying to define what good tatse or touch is. I'm gonna congratulate you on your set-up, I think its great, but fuck that, you're making music so have fun!

[superspit]

sentiments reciprocated.........thanx Tele!!...btw....what sort of Tele do you drive?
yep...bless the Graphic EQ!! Sound is always going to be a highly subjective topic, I understand this only too well. There are many 'rules' to recording, and I just happen to break a few, and totally obey others.
What can I say.....my projects sound great to me, personally and comparitively (to some other recordings I've heard).
But like everything in life,.....you're going to be better than some, and some better than you!! It's all normal!! Thanx 4 restoring my faith here today!!
Superspit.

[TelePaul]

Originally Posted by superspit

sentiments reciprocated.........thanx Tele!!...btw....what sort of Tele do you drive?
yep...bless the Graphic EQ!! Sound is always going to be a highly subjective topic, I understand this only too well. There are many 'rules' to recording, and I just happen to break a few, and totally obey others.
What can I say.....my projects sound great to me, personally and comparitively (to some other recordings I've heard).
But like everything in life,.....you're going to be better than some, and some better than you!! It's all normal!! Thanx 4 restoring my faith here today!!
Superspit.

Umm...if this is true....why you gimme negative rep??

[TragikRemix]

my only discrepency is that your using a windows computer

and did you pay for that CEP?

RE: Mixing in Corners;
Yes, it is supposadly not good.
but i couldnt hear the difference because im not a professional...
but i know that you can feel more bass in the corner of a room... maybe put up one of those iso-columns? i dont know much about acoustics, except that they arent too good in my studio, and its not cheap to treat a room.

[superspit]

Originally Posted by TelePaul

Umm...if this is true....why you gimme negative rep??

Oh 5hit man!!! No way!! As u could see by my comments in your rep section, it wasn't suppose to be negative. Oh man...I feel like 5hit now. Is there something I can do to reverse my error Tele? Man, your assistance has been fab!!
Superspit.

[superspit]

[QUOTE=TragikRemix]my only discrepency is that your using a windows computer

and did you pay for that CEP?

...................been paying for my CE since 1.0!!
And all of my O/S since I owned an Amiga!!
What made you ask that TR?
Regards,
Superspit

[TragikRemix]

Originally Posted by superspit

...................been paying for my CE since 1.0!!
ummmm..............thanx anyway. What made you ask that TR?

because CEP was spreading like wildfire across P2P servers recently.

[superspit]

Originally Posted by TragikRemix

because CEP was spreading like wildfire across P2P servers recently.

Maybe a good question to put forward in the CEP forum.....I'd like to see that go down.(?) LOL.........But I'm sure there are more honest people than dishonest ones here at this site?

[superspit]

These are a couple of tracks that I recorded in my room. (they are of lower quality, streaming type audio...but should give you an idea.) these are early demo's I put on a 'site'......
The guitars, bass and recording/production work are from me.....the music is not original though! Let me know what you think.....I don't mind getting bashed, infact I'll give u a number and u can get to the back of the line!!
Regards,
Superspit (original thread starter!!)

http://www.myspace.com/obzcure