diffusors

[Tonio]

Whats up with these diffusors? Would they actually diffuse?

[studiomaster]

Yes..because those seperation between the objects help trap the sound...

[COOLCAT]

my basic understanding is all the surfaces help reduce the motion of the sound waves, diffuses the sound, or weakens it too.
there's actually some scientific formula that "theorizes" how much energy is lost each time the sound-molecules hit a surface.

Sound is attenuated by absorption, re-directed by reflection and uniformly scattered by diffusion. RPG.

So I guess anything in the room can be called a absorber, reflector or diffusor? including the ME..? So if the band comes into the sound room to hear a playback does that change all the freq responses?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Yes..because those seperation between the objects help trap the sound...

TRAP IT? That sounds like absorption. What does
"trapping" sound have to do with diffusion anyway? And if so, how does it accomplish this feat? Is there any test data? Tested proof is the only thing I'll believe anymore, so show me the lab tests. Personally, those look like a snake oil "diffuser" to me Or maybe architectural "look cool" grills. Not only that, but by what principle do they...ahem...diffuse broadband sound? Are they Shroeder type diffusers? What are their period? What about their sequence?
Quadratic residue? Perhaps Prime Root? Furthermore, what IS their design bandwidth?
Look, diffusion is a difficult subject to begin with, and there is almost a encyclipedia of "net fact" on diffusion in the HR world, not to mention a plethora of companys selling crap they claim "diffuse" sound. To begin with, DEFINE DIFFUSION. For one, how can you "diffuse" wavelengths that approach the dimensions of the room

[Tonio]

They sure look cool. The CR doesn't even look all that big either. Even if it did have difussion capabilities, I presume it would be in the HF . They seem to be identical, so it would seem overkill at a small frequency range. Plus it doesn't really appear to have any scattering characteristics.
I have seen pcitures of a few more "pro studios" with the exact similar construction, except for the spacers between the 1x's are placed randomly.

[studiomaster]

Sorry Rick, i got confused with diffusors and dampeners. You're right; diffusors don't trap sound

[COOLCAT]

i think the CR room looks great, imo.

maybe the wood-diffusors of unknown freq target are to remove the box-shaped room effect?

looking at the pic the angles are created by these wooden "things".

the corners almost appear the wooded-slat things, have something behind them maybe fiberglass/absorbers?

fake or not, how does the music come out is what counts?

i said on another post, this old studio which looks like complete ass, >30yrs old has done some major works and done quite well and still making money using what most of us would consider total crap.....much,much lower than this picture. go figure?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Now THESE are diffusers!!

[COOLCAT]

so I wonder after dropping all that cash and science on a room like that...how do they prove it? what tools exactly? what data?

or does the Diffusor salesman say "thats it now your hearing FLAT"...isn't awesome! listen sssshhhh...hear those DIFFUSORS working??

My understanding is Ethan uses $150 software. The mics don't seem to be brought up much as long as their "measurement" mics, calibrated for flat..hmm?
and the sound card.

but in the final stage, where the studio owner writes a check for a room like this, do they usually get a RTA graph or something? with and without people sitting in the room?

measurement of the corners or the mix seat, the co-pilot seat?

is it science leading the sound or the sound leading the science?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

but in the final stage, where the studio owner writes a check for a room like this, do they usually get a RTA graph or something? with and without peole sitting in the room?

Don't rightly know coolcat. What I do know is its based on a 2d Prime Root. But you can bet George Massenberg doesn't buy snake oil. However, as usual Ethan asks the right question. Scroll to the bottom.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...d62713c01c5095
Here is more info.

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/d...=101&navid=907

[COOLCAT]

great link..
seems all this is to create or simulate more space.

I can understand if an ion is travelling a straight path it is a shorter distance, but making the ion go thru a "maze" like diffusors or fiberglass weave, its actually increasing the distance then simulating the room is larger than it is and weakening the energy of the ion. Mean Free Path of the ION is greatly reduced, which is good for a mixing room. If the Mean Free Path had no surfaces the sound would keep reflecting and causing nodes and adding t o standing waves.


Simulating a larger room with Fiberglass and SPIKE/Diffusors or ripping out the ceiling to add space. hmm?

So does anyone have a guess of what a solid 2x4' fiberglass-wall, 100% covered, would add in terms of "simulated" distance to the room?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

seems all this is to create or simulate more space.

I don't think so. I think it is to allow the decay of sound at ALL frequencies equally. In otherwords, an equal RT-60 from 20hz to 20k.hz(above or below is of no consequence because of the limits of our hearing). Hence, a flat response/difused sound field. However, my disclaimer is in full force here. ie...I ain't no stinkin expert

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

Now THESE are diffusers!!

yeah rick i was gonna post that, lol

[pandamonk]

What i don't get is why he builds this huge amazing room, probably costing $millions, with all the "best" equipment, then puts a computer screen right in front of 1 of the monitors. Wouldn't that screw up what he's done to a certain extent?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey Pandamonk, I THINK its a matter of depth perception in the picture. I believe the monitors are set back a ways, but 2d pictures, especially this one, kind of hides the fact. Although...you may be right. If that is indeed the case......

[studiomaster]

Wow...that's some serious diffusors!

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

What I wonder is if spending this kind of dough is like buying a Hundee to go shopping at the mall.....just because you can. How much better will a mix be after spending a mill or so to get that extra .0000005% "better translation". Hmmm, go figure. I'd like to hear the same project mixed in there vs my room.

[COOLCAT]

I don't get the speakers blocked thing either...here's a current Abbey Road shot?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

When it comes to this kinda money, I think the client has to feel their getting their moneys worth by virtue of science. Hence anal scientific mumbo gumbo gone overboard .... I mean, were not sending men to mars
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=2312

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

Hey Pandamonk, I THINK its a matter of depth perception in the picture. I believe the monitors are set back a ways, but 2d pictures, especially this one, kind of hides the fact. Although...you may be right. If that is indeed the case......

But from that pic it looks like the speaker isn't even facing the "sweet spot", and that even if it was, the sceen would still be blocking it.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

WOW! I Knew it!!!

Hey guys, check out the CARPET threshold at the floor/wall intersection. Man, I had a friend in the 80's that was building his HR room with what materials he could find. He found a piece of linoleum that wasn't quite big enough for the floor, and some carpet cutoffs that wasn't big enough either. So thats exactly what he did, but made the boundary line between the carpet/linoleum CURVED like a serpentine line. I want to tell you, UNDOUBTABLY, that was the best, most diffused sound I've ever heard in a HR type room. And it was in a garage. It sounded HUGE And thats why this is EXACTLY what I am doing in my room.

From what I understand now, DIFFRACTION is the key ingredient here. Since its a CORNER, and the carpet is on one plane of the corner, and a reflective wall on the other, you get absorption and reflection happening in the same boundary space, although thats totally conjecture on my behalf.
I have no proof or any "scientific" principle, or tests to back it up.
All I know is it sounded fucking great!! One other thing. I have been told by an acoustician from europe, that one reason CORNER BASE TRAPS absorb MORE than the absorption coeffecients tell you, is DIFFRACTION at the wall/fiberglass boundary ADDS absorption to the equasion. Thats where my conjecture comes from. No matter, I'm doing it because I also think it just looks plain cool. I'm using black carpet against a Maple laminate flooring. Makes a great contrast.

[COOLCAT]

maybe in private all the pro's use headphones?

thats why they all secretly tell the juniors, DON'T WEAR HEADPHONES!!!

its a secret club, like the DavinciCode, the SECRET M.E. CLUB just spends all that money on diffusers, and $10 million dollar studios to distract the Newbies, the customers, and wanna-be??

WHAT IF??? in secret, EVERY ALBUM EVER MADE WAS MIXED AND MASTERED WITH HEADPHONES man! Thats why they don't care if a console or CRT is directly in front of their monitor??
Conspiracy?

or maybe I'm full of shit and possibly partied too hard in the 60's and 70's? thats a possibilty too.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

WOW! I Knew it!!!

Hey guys, check out the CARPET threshold at the floor/wall intersection. Man, I had a friend in the 80's that was building his HR room with what materials he could find. He found a piece of linoleum that wasn't quite big enough for the floor, and some carpet cutoffs that wasn't big enough either. So thats exactly what he did, but made the boundary line between the carpet/linoleum CURVED like a serpentine line. I want to tell you, UNDOUBTABLY, that was the best, most diffused sound I've ever heard in a HR type room. And it was in a garage. It sounded HUGE And thats why this is EXACTLY what I am doing in my room.

From what I understand now, DIFFRACTION is the key ingredient here. Since its a CORNER, and the carpet is on one plane of the corner, and a reflective wall on the other, you get absorption and reflection happening in the same boundary space, although thats totally conjecture on my behalf.
I have no proof or any "scientific" principle, or tests to back it up.
All I know is it sounded fucking great!! One other thing. I have been told by an acoustician from europe, that one reason CORNER BASE TRAPS absorb MORE than the absorption coeffecients tell you, is DIFFRACTION at the wall/fiberglass boundary ADDS absorption to the equasion. Thats where my conjecture comes from. No matter, I'm doing it because I also think it just looks plain cool. I'm using black carpet against a Maple laminate flooring. Makes a great contrast.

Rick i can't see or udnerstand what you are talking about. Please explain

[pandamonk]

Aww in the abbey road one? Still don't understand though

[pandamonk]

Wow



That shows how much of the speaker is actually blocked by the console. What's with that? Is it that those a subs and bass frequencies omnidirectional and can just pass through the console?