Virtuoso

[Jerry Kahn]

Hey boys and girls, I just picked up a Virtuoso 128 (EMU/Ensonic) module from Sam Ash NYC because I thought the orchestral sounds were quite cool, especially the strings. I liked them better than the Roland's. The knobs gave some interesting effects as well. I have about a week left to return it if I don't like it. It cost about 1K. I am dissatisfied with brass and winds, especially legato/slurred phrases, but I still need to check out the controls on these sounds in more depth. Percussion sounded nice. My goal is to replace the New York Philharmonic in my bedroom in Brooklyn.

Any feedback?

[monty]

LOL. Ya, I want the London Symphony Orchestra in mine.

[Rev E]

Jerry:

I demoed the Virtuoso briefly in the music store AND while I was impressed with it as a module, I wouldn't recommend it if you were planning on doing music in which you intend on passing off as a "real" orchestra. The strings have some issues in their transition from note to note (esp. in the faster passages). The brass has its issues, as you've noticed.

I would recommend getting a sampler if you really want to get closer to authentic sounds. Gigasampler is making a great product, the only tradeoff is that it's usually best to run Gigasampler on its own computer for best response; although, there is a fix to allow it do play on the same computer as the sequencer (ask me more later if you're interested). Gigasampler runs from ~$80 for the LE version to $200 (64 voices) to ~$300 (96 voices) to ~$400 (160 voices) Also there are a number of hardware samplers that are less than $1k. Emu has the ESI 2000 for about $600. It comes with 10 sample CDs. Plus with the $400 that you saved over the virtuoso, you could get some sample RAM (32-64 MB), a SCSI CD-ROM and perhaps an orchestral sample CD or two. I just don't think that the virtuoso will ever be a "London Symphony" in a box. Just my $0.02.

Rev E

[Jerry Kahn]

Rev --

Thanks so much for that informed recommendation. Actually, I recalled muffled utterances, and such words as "samples" and "Gigasampler" whilst I desperately picked the Sam Ash rep's brains, as he simultaneously crammed the sound module down my unsuspecting gizzard.

With an extensive background as a classical clarinettist and having played in a number of orchestras over the years, I find it particularly hard to digest fake sounds. Evidently I need to read up on this software sampler, and it looks like I'm definitely gonna return the Virtuoso. Too bad though, 'cause I kindof liked it... it seemed... so... simple.

-- Jerry

[Tapehead]

Just a thought--if you only need this occasionally (I've mounted this hobby horse before) why not rent one when you need it. Very few pieces of equipment do everything well. Each synth, module, etc. has some great sounds, some ok ones and a whole lot of kaka. I do the same with guitars--I'd love to have a wall full of guitars at my command, but I don't have the payola to accomplish this dream. So if I want a Dobro sound in a song, I'll rent a good one for a day, record it and bring it back.)

However, if there is a piece of equipment that is the core of your sound, and you use it all the time, then you'll probably want to own it.

[Rev E]

Jerry,

Like you, my first and primary instrument is classical trumpet. I think that we agree that most sampled "natural" instruments leave a lot to be desired. If that's the case, I really recommend you looking into Gigasampler. I have the Gigasampler 64 and the sound quality of what's available is incredible. My warnings about the need for another computer is for a "best-case scenario". In reality, Giga can work on the same computer as the digital audio sequencer. I have Emagic, a program which doesn't like to talk to Giga. Actually most of the major digital audio sequencers have a problem talking to Gigasampler. A Giga user and programmer created a small shareware "fix" that allows problematic programs (e.g. Logic, Cubase, Cakewalk, etc) to "talk" to Giga and be run on the same computer.

For what you want, it seems that Gigasampler would be the only real choice. Because Giga is probably the closest thing to the real thing that we have today. This is because Gigasampler/studio streams the sample directly off the hard disk rather than the RAM, like all of the rest of software samplers. Thus, the samples can be as long as you like, with no need for a sample to ever be looped to extend its decay. Thus, more realism!!! The Gigapiano that came with my Gigasampler is absolutely amazing. Further there are a few superior orchestral sample CD sets like the Miroslav Vitious Orchestral Libraries, East West's Advanced Orchestra, etc... Despite the high costs of these libraries, you could buy Giga sampler and an Orchestral library, some RAM and still pay less than you did for the Virtuoso.

My suggestion is that you take some time to research Giga products. Even it that only means getting the Gigasampler LE for $80. You could always upgrade later and I'd be willing to bet that you would say that it's the best $80 that you have spent in a while. Truth be known, it actually costs LESS to buy Gigasampler LE and upgrade through the Nemesys website than it is to buy Gigastudio 96 or 160 outright. Bizarre, isn't it? I hope that you find something that you can use. BTW, Gigasampler is sold by Nemesys at http://www.nemesystech.com. I don't work for them. Just a very satisfied customer! (that is, once I got through the initial headaches of getting Giga to work with my sequencer)

Rev E

[anppilot]

Go to Ebay. You can fine Akai 3000 series samplers from 200-600$, or ASR-10 samplers for about 500, or even and of the Kurtzweil samplers very cheap. And as with any of the above mentioned samplers, you can find a variety of sample disks on Ebay as well

[Jerry Kahn]

Alas, poor Virtuoso. It has gone back from whence it came... that is, from "Ash to Ash". But wait, Rev! Is there any advantage AT ALL to using sound modules for what we want to do here? Or, in your opinion does Gigasampler + software sequencer = the complete solution? For example, if you really didn't know what kind of sounds you wanted for something you've written, and desired to quickly audition a bunch of different orchestrations, could a module be easier to take that first cut, or do you think Giga has that all covered as well? I guess what I am asking is, how easy is the Giga thing to set up for a session ofwork, once it has been installed? Is sample loading, and other setup activities much of a pain in the u-no?

[Rev E]

Jerry,

As long as you have the samples in Giga format, it loads in seconds. It's painless to interview samples on Giga. Thing go very fast. You could load up 16 regular sized instuments in 1 minute. If you saved them as a performance, things load up even faster, because all you have to open is the one performance. I couldn't see things happening too much faster with a module. And at least, it's not as painfully slow as hardware samplers, where you probably lost the musical urge by the time the sample loaded.

IMO, it sounds to me like you're extremely picky and critical when it comes to emulated acoustic instruments (like me). In this case, the only thing that I think will EVer solve that problem are large, well-programmed, suberb sounding samples than load really fast...... Gigasampler/studio to the rescue. I will likely upgrade to Gigastudio 96 soon. I understand that Gigastudio loads samples in EVen faster than the already fast Gigasampler. Perhaps you should try the Gigasampler LE for ~$80 to check it out. If it works out for you then you can upgrade to Gigasampler 64 or Gigastudio. With the money you spent of the virtuoso, you could get one of the Giga products and a great starter library of Orchestral sounds and still have $$$ left over for some RAM. Don't forget to make sure that your soundcard/interface has GSIF (Gigasampler) drivers. It helps to stream sample data faster than the average ASIO drivers.

Rev E

Let me know what you decided to do.

[anppilot]

yeah, u can do the gigasampler thing also

[Jerry Kahn]

OK, I checked out the Giga site and picked a bunch of brains-- I am definitely sold on Giga. So much so that I am now going to do the unthinkable-- buy a (shudder) PC-- you see, I have been a Mac man for a decade, but Giga doesn't ride on Macs. So now the question is, what hardware configuration do I use?

So I'm thinking of building my own custom box, or buying a specially configured PC so as to focus spending on what is good for Giga, since that is the only thing I will be using this for. (Plan to use Macs for sequencing and recording).

Any PC/Giga configuration recommendations? Does building one myself make sense or is that just begging for additional heartburn?

Thanks a bunch,

Jerry

[Rev E]

Jerry,

You may not realize it, but your plan are a BEST case scenario for Giga, since you have Giga playing on it's own computer (Giga loves to have its own computer). Building it yourself sounds like a great idea (save some $$$). So long as you know a little something about computers, you should not have many problems. You may want to check out the people on the Computer Hardware and Soundcards forum if you run into problems or have major questions.

As far as recommendations, just make sure that you get a sound card/interface that has GSIF drivers. Cards that come to mind are the Echo Audio cards (Gina,Darla Layla), the Delta cards, Creamware cards, etc. Basically most of the major cards with the exception of the Yamaha cards. Check http://www.nemesystech.com/ under Hardware Compatability. As long as you have the appropriate soundcard and driver, a fast hard disk (7200 rpms and more Ultra SCSI or UMDA 66 or 100), and at least 128 MB of RAM, you should be in good shape. Let me know how it turns out.

Rev E

[Jerry Kahn]

Will do, Rev -- I'll let you know when it's done -- probably a coupla weeks. Thanks again. This is going to be very, very cool.