Urgh... Might get flamed for this...

[get2sammyb]

Now I know what you are thinking - "Go and learn music theory you n00b"... but I am curious as to why no one has made such a thing yet (maybe they have but I can't find it).

Imagine you have just got a guitar chord sequence worked out. Maybe a guitar sequence? Chordfind.com will help you if you aren't entirely sure what chord you are playing - sorted.

So now you have that, you want to know what key you're in. You're musical theory isn't up to scratch, you're still learning, and don't have the type to walk of to the piano and work out all the notes your in. When you eventually do you know what key you're in. So then you wonder what scales would accompany your chords. And so on... and so on.

Time consuming?

Difficult for new players?

Ok so part of the songwriting technique is working out what key your in, and what scales to use, but wouldn't it be a nice learning tool, and wouldn't it speed up writing time if there was a nice piece of software available where you could enter the chords or notes you were playing, and the software works our the key and scales available. And vice versa.

I appreciate that to some that sounds like "cheating" - and I agree. But imagine how useful it would be to those of us still learning, to help our learning process. And to those seasoned professionals - think of how much it would speed up your process.

So my question is:

Does the software exist? Do you think it ever will exist?

[silentman]

Ultimately it is what SOUNDS good that is the key. Theory is the science behind music, but not music itself. I agree with you that it might be a nice tool to have, but not a crutch to rely on. I've had two college level music theory classes and only a handfull of people in each class could write a decent song. To me it's much better to be a great song writer with a little theory background than have loads of music science floating around in our heads with no artistic grounding. Ultimately theory is a good base to go back to, but shouldn't drive our song writing processes. But to answer your question, no, I've never heard of this kind of software. There might be some websites that have ASP applications written that might do something close to what you are talking about though.

-JV

[FALKEN]

it would be extremely difficult because there are many scales that contain the Exact same notes...furthermore, there are many chord progressions that do not necessarily correspond with a single key. hate to burst your bubble...

knowing theory is good...knowing the history of world music is better IMO...you learn to understand the actual meaning behind what you are playing. and you can start to make musical "statements" that actually mean something.

beyond that, its just playing what sounds good to you, man.

[get2sammyb]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

it would be extremely difficult because there are many scales that contain the Exact same notes...furthermore, there are many chord progressions that do not necessarily correspond with a single key. hate to burst your bubble...

Yeah, that's a difficulty I never really considered - but now you mention it I guess that's true. Guess it shows how little I know about musical theory.

But you guys make some good points actually, I'm still confused however:

(Noob question again, don't flame) - if music theory doesn't neccessarily lead to good composing, then exactly what is the purpose of music theory?

[Monkey Allen]

I like not knowing a thing about scales or theory. But it might be kind of useful for beginners, I dunno

[Cyrokk]

Originally Posted by get2sammyb

(Noob question again, don't flame) - if music theory doesn't neccessarily lead to good composing, then exactly what is the purpose of music theory?

Music theory is the theoretical basis for describing music. It comes in handy when arranging music for multiple instruments and in describing to someone else what you are doing and/or what you want others to do.

The most important skill in music theory is ear training: learning how intervals work in relation to each other. With this skill you can easily transcribe music in your head to paper without the use of an instrument. You can also pick up note and chord changes you hear on the radio or when improvising with other musicians. You will also have a heightened sense of pitch which will help you to sing in tune.

Knowing interval fundamentals saves time in songwriting and can keep the flow going. You don't necessarily need to know it to write music, but this part of theory alone is an invaluable skill.

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by get2sammyb

(Noob question again, don't flame) - if music theory doesn't neccessarily lead to good composing, then exactly what is the purpose of music theory?

IMHO, knowing the rules and following them are two different things. Theory teaches you something about what is known to work. If you just do exactly what is known to work, though, you won't have a very interesting sound. If you ignore the rules flagrantly, you won't have a very pleasing sound.

The key to good music (luck notwithstanding) is knowing the rules so that when you break them, you know that you are breaking them and are making a conscious decision to do so. The result is that over time, you learn when to break the rules and when not to do so.

Of course, you can learn all that stuff without any formal theory training. Learning theory just shaves a lot of time off of the process. Or, put another way, a million monkeys can write Shakespeare, but one person can do it much more quickly, not because the monkeys' lack of understanding of the language makes them incapable of getting it right, but rather because the person's understanding of the language makes them able to immediately discard (without writing) every instance of "a Chrysanthemum by any other name".

[get2sammyb]

Makes sense now I must admit.

It would be nice for something like I mentioned as a learning tool and as a basis to work from - but like you guys have put clearly... Perhaps not a rational idea?

Thanks for all your help guys, appreciated as ever.

[demensia]

Music theory explains why certain things sound the way they do.
It is one of the major components involved in playing with other people.
Its provides a way for musicians to communicate with each other.

I only know very basic theory... but its enough to open up options for me that I would have otherwise not had...

There is alot of software that will do things similar to what your asking... and many, many books written on the subject. And like mentioned before.. you don't need them to write a song... they could however give you some insight on why the song you just wrote sounds the way it does.

Fact is... the information is there.. If you really wanted to, or thought for some reason you had to... you could pick up an understanding of chord progressions, scales, and modes.. You're just lazy... Just like me.

It is difficult, and it is time consuming, and you don't need it..

But it is one of the barriers that seperates mediocre players from amazing ones.

[chazba]

Writing music without having a fair understanding of the structure of harmony is a little like trying to write in a foreign language. You will be seriously limited in what you can express. You will be incapable of sublety and nuance. That is not to say that you won't write some interesting stuff, or that you can't make lots of money doing it. Kinda like Beavis-n-Butthead......hmmmm....


writeonnnn..,...
chazba

[hobbestheprince]

I agree that it's good to at least have a background of music theory before you dive into keys and all that. Play around with some Beach Boys songs like "Surfer Girl" or "In My Room" and analyze them. You'll notice there are interesting shifts and different keys in alot of their music, stuff that was just being introduced back in the day by Brian Wilson (musical genius). The Beatles did it to an extent, but in my opinion it was Brian that really made it natural, because he had an immaculate ear for harmonies and whatnot (and this was a guy who is deaf in one ear!). With time you'll develop the "perfect pitch" as I have, and you'll be able to pick out songs on the radio and see how incredibly easy they really are yet they make millions (bitter I know). Anyways, hope that helps. Do some reading, trust me it will definately pay off.

Eric

[FALKEN]

also important is understanding the different song structures and where they come from. like AABA, AABB, ABAB, etc...

I like to use all of those old forms in my songs...they can sure beat the verse/chrous/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus format....

and yeah the beatles did it too.

[Toddskins]

Originally Posted by get2sammyb

Now I know what you are thinking - "Go and learn music theory you n00b"... but I am curious as to why no one has made such a thing yet (maybe they have but I can't find it).

Imagine you have just got a guitar chord sequence worked out. Maybe a guitar sequence? Chordfind.com will help you if you aren't entirely sure what chord you are playing - sorted.

So now you have that, you want to know what key you're in. You're musical theory isn't up to scratch, you're still learning, and don't have the type to walk of to the piano and work out all the notes your in. When you eventually do you know what key you're in. So then you wonder what scales would accompany your chords. And so on... and so on.

Time consuming?

Difficult for new players?

Ok so part of the songwriting technique is working out what key your in, and what scales to use, but wouldn't it be a nice learning tool, and wouldn't it speed up writing time if there was a nice piece of software available where you could enter the chords or notes you were playing, and the software works our the key and scales available. And vice versa.

I appreciate that to some that sounds like "cheating" - and I agree. But imagine how useful it would be to those of us still learning, to help our learning process. And to those seasoned professionals - think of how much it would speed up your process.

So my question is:

Does the software exist? Do you think it ever will exist?

To answer your question - Yes. The software is called:

http://www.band-in-a-box.com/

Enjoy

[get2sammyb]

Wow. Thanks a lot.

And thanks for all the advice too... appreciated.

[jimistone]

IMO music theory broadens your musical horizons.

Whether one takes formal musical training or picks up a guitar and, over several years, becomes an accomplished musician... who can't read a note of printed music...it doesn't matter.

You learn music theory either way.
The more music theory you know, the better your playing and writing will be.