Hammonds, Rhodes and Mellotrons?

[TexRoadkill]

What's the best hardware emulation of Hammonds, Rhodes and Mellotrons these days?

I was also thinking about pairing them up with one of the Motion Sound amps. Is their little rack mount amp worth a shit?

[apl]

A jazz keyboard friend of mine just got a Nord that's supposed to do just that. He's rather jazzed about it.

[TexRoadkill]

hmm, their Wurlitzer electric piano demo is pretty sweet but I didn't see any Hammonds. I'll check out one in the store.

[apl]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

hmm, their Wurlitzer electric piano demo is pretty sweet but I didn't see any Hammonds. I'll check out one in the store.

My friend says it'll do a decent Hammond.

[Toddskins]

Hammond B3:

Kurzweil's development of the KB3 algorithm in the K2500 and K2600 workstations is among the top 2 or 3 emulations of all time. Hammond continues to make new gear that perfectly sounds like the original B3, one called the XK3, I believe. Then there's VOCE and others.

Check out Keyboard Magazine's website for back issues or search it for their reviews. Manufacturers have come a long way, and the past few years are only very minor improvements, competitively speaking, because they were so much on the mark even as of 7 years ago.

Rhodes:

Too many to name, but I have various samples for my Kurzweil that I think are better than the original (all because of synth capability), and my friend owns a Yamaha Motif whose Pipe Organ sounds I heard floored me. Blew my Kurzweil's pipe organ samples away, I hated to say. It's Rhodes sounds were good.

Mellotron:

Don't know much about this sound, but if you buy a decent sampling keyboard, 'should not have any problem getting sounds for it.

[altitude909]

Yeah, the nord electro or stage are designed for emulating the older electric pianos. Alot of ppl I know have replaced their live rhodes in favor of the Nord.

For a mellotron, I have never seen a decent hardware elmulator however the software one is pretty good though. They still make Mellotrons (~$6000 though)

[sajs]

I really like the sounds of the Nord. Here some samples:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--NORSTAGE88

[Supercreep]

Native Instruments B4 slays the Nord at B3.

Lounge Lizard is the best EP sound I've ever heard.

I'm looking for a good mellotron sound myself.

[TexRoadkill]

Thanks for the suggestions. That Nord looks interesting.

I need to go over to GC and check them out. Our good keyboard store shut down so I went to this other smaller guitar/keyboard shop and they didn't have a single keyboard powered up. Fuckers.

[petermiller]

get the nord electo or stage 88 for the wuriltzer, rhodes,b3, get a motionsound amp. can't help you on a melotron for live use. The nord does an extremely good job at the other three though, probably the best all in one keyboard for these

[Track Rat]

I'm not a keyboard player but I picked up a used Alesis QS-8 and it has decent patchs for all three. Maybe not the best but very usable. And it was cheap.

[TexRoadkill]

I ended up getting a Yamaha S90ES and it seems to do the job. I really like the Wurlie electric piano and the acoustic pianos. Sampled organs just dont have that magic of a real hammond and leslie.

Now that I've been bitten by the vintage key bug I'm trying to score a real hammond and leslie, and a wurlitzer A200 and a Hohner ElectraPiano and ...

I'm surprised how cheap the Hammonds are. M's for less then $300 and C's for around $1500. Anybody here know their hammonds very well? Is the M just going to piss me off and make me wish I had sprung for the C? I know the difference is the M has fewer low notes and no foldback. Seems like the foldback would be important for the classic, dirty hammond scream.

[prestomation]

I have an M-100 series. True, it's a full-sized organ at heart, just fewer notes. two 45-key manuals instead of 61-, and it has one octave of bass instead of two, but I believe it's the same tone generator in their, same sounds.

Even though I have an M-111, I still use NI's B4 in the studio if the hammond is not prominant, it is that amazing!

[dragonworks]

I have never heard anything sound like a mellotron but a mellotron.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally Posted by prestomation

I have an M-100 series. True, it's a full-sized organ at heart, just fewer notes. two 45-key manuals instead of 61-, and it has one octave of bass instead of two, but I believe it's the same tone generator in their, same sounds

After talking to a local hammond tech I think I'm going to try and find a C. Although a chopped M would be fun. He's going to build a custom leslie for me so I can use it with my keyboard for now.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally Posted by dragonworks

I have never heard anything sound like a mellotron but a mellotron.

They're actually making new ones again but damn they're expensive.

Considering they were the first analog sampler they should be pretty easy to replicate on a digital sampler. I've heard some good softsynths but don't really use them yet.

[lumbago]

Get a Roland synth module with the vintage synth/keys card and the Orch 2 card for mellotron. Flutes, Choir and Strings. And for Wurli and rhodes. Not so hot on organ.

I recall there was an Emu rack device from about 1992 which also did these - there was a B3 emulation and a Vintage keys emulation.

[jpmorris]

I'm currently using a Hammond XM-1 connected to a Hughes & Kettner Rotosphere Mk2. It does a pretty decent job - the Rotosphere is supposed to be the best you can get without an actual rotary speaker.

For the Rhodes I am using the LearJeff soundfont running through FluidSynth on a laptop. Latency is decent but it has a tendency to stutter as the laptop isn't quite powerful enough. I'm looking at getting a Korg Tr-61 or something for better orchestral sounds, so if it does a decent enough Rhodes or Wurlitzer I'll probably replace FluidSynth with that.

I have also used LoungeLizard 1 - which is nice, but I utterly loathe the copy protection scheme, since it will render the software useless if AAS should ever fold or discontinue it. I've also used 'Mr Tramp' as an alternative, but I'm trying to avoid softsynths unless I can get them to work outside of Windows.

For the mellotron I'm using the AKAI disk from www.mellotron.com. The strings don't sound too good, choir makes up for it. The flutes tend to vary in pitch so they're okay (or not) depending on the music. This would probably be better with a truly AKAI-compatible playback engine that can use the 'retuned' program - I'm using some weird thing I designed myself.

If you've got a lot of cash, you might want to check out the Manikin Memotron, which is a digital mellotron. It costs about a grand, though.

[gtrman_66]

My keyboard player uses one of the new versions of the Korg CX-3 for B-3 sounds. It's pretty wicked, especially through the little Motion Sound leslie top he carries around.

Here's a sample from the Korg site, no real leslie on this, just straight plugged in. I think it's pretty convincing.

http://www.korg.com/downloads/mp3/cx3/GPClassicSoul.mp3

I was reading in one of the Keyboard mags the other day that Rhodes is supposed to be producing a real Rhodes again soon. That would be cool!!

[TexRoadkill]

That Memotron is pretty cool. But at $2k it's pretty pricey.

[crankypants]

Here is a free mellotron softsynth:

tapeworm

[Rodrev]

Sampled mellotrons will sound a lot nicer if you dump them to analog tape. My experience is that wow and flutter and even tape dropouts can be quite desirable. I run my Mellosamples through an old portable r2r in rather bad condition.

Tubes preamps help as well, but solid state guitar amps tends to make the sound even brighter (which in my case isnt desirable). I guess what happens can be described as "warming up the sound", and that some people might say that a tape simulator might help. (I wont)

The sound from the mello is unpredictable (one note doesnt sound the same twice). Therefore the randomness of a r2r or casette deck can the sound more "lively" and "real" in my opinion.

[Somnium7]

The best Mellotron I've heard anywhere would be this sample collection:

http://www.hollowsun.com/cds/newtron_page.html

Don't let the price fool you it's really very good stuff. They also have a library for the Yamaha CP70 which is my favorite of their offerings. This collection also includes a Rhodes set and a Wurli set as a bonus and these are both good too.

The dirty Hammond scream had alot to do with the AO-28 preamp.
For Hammond I never have found samples or emulations that I liked. It's the whole mechanical aspect I think that gets lost in translation. So my solution, since I can't afford to buy a nice old B3 was to hotrod a Hammond T524 spinet. I picked one up for $50 in good condition from a consignment shop. After giving the unit a lube job I followed the instructions here:

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammon...ifications.htm

End result is awesome. Sounds like an M series now. Real Hammond sound for $50 and some elbow grease.

[Rodrev]

Originally Posted by Somnium7

The best Mellotron I've heard anywhere would be this sample collection:

http://www.hollowsun.com/cds/newtron_page.html

Don't let the price fool you it's really very good stuff. They also have a library for the Yamaha CP70 which is my favorite of their offerings. This collection also includes a Rhodes set and a Wurli set as a bonus and these are both good too.

The dirty Hammond scream had alot to do with the AO-28 preamp.
For Hammond I never have found samples or emulations that I liked. It's the whole mechanical aspect I think that gets lost in translation. So my solution, since I can't afford to buy a nice old B3 was to hotrod a Hammond T524 spinet. I picked one up for $50 in good condition from a consignment shop. After giving the unit a lube job I followed the instructions here:

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammon...ifications.htm

End result is awesome. Sounds like an M series now. Real Hammond sound for $50 and some elbow grease.

Wow! You made the T Tube driven?! Thats pretty sweet.

I own a M100 myself, and it sounds much better with some tweaking. (Adjusting Pre-amp level and percussion cutoff). Do you have any recordings of your modified T? Id be very keen to hear it with tubes in.

As for Hammond sounds, I havent heard any software that impress. Everyone I know who boasts SW as B4 have never had more than 10 minutes alone with the real thing. I think Keith Emerson did a Sample CD called "danderous synths and organs". I you need gritty hammond SAMPLES, they arent that bad. If you need to play an organ, go get one. If you dont have the room, throw something out. Youll never regret. Its a dream to play. Hours pass and the leslie keeps twirling

A "cheap" way to have a real analog synth is the Roland SH-101. Altho this is a 80s synth it makes a decent job in producing 70s mono lead sounds. And YES! There is a great difference between a software synth and a analog one. Its like you can feel it working though your finger tips. AND if you run it trough a bluesbreaker and a leslie (and perhaps a tape echo?), the end of the world is nigh.

[jpmorris]

Oh fun, this topic has come back. I'll have to make some demo recordings of the sounds I'm getting.

On the subject of the Hammond, does anyone know what was done to produce the extraordinary bass sound in "Killer" by Van der Graaf Generator? (3:54-4:56 and 7:47-finish). I think it's a Hammond with a stupendous amount of echo and phasing on it, but the underlying sound is a mystery to me.
While I've heard Hammonds do something a bit like it in other songs, it's a sound that the XM-1 seems wholly incapable of making. Whatever it was, VDGG didn't seem to be able to do it live.