Amp Modelers

[Double]

I need another option; I am looking for a better sounding Modeling device. I have tried the PODxt, Behringer V-Amp and still own a Vox ToneLab SE (the best sounding of the three.. IMHO). Yet still I do not use the Vox that much because it still does not sound as good as my 70's Princeton Reverb miked with a SM57, which is still too loud to use for late night recording. I would also like to have a few more tones other than just that one amp to record with. Does anybody out there use another type amp modeler that gets a good realistic miked amp sound out of it. I do not use effects of any type, nor want to. I play mostly blues, roots rock and a little country. For guitars I use vintage strats and telecasters and use an old TS9 or an old MXR Mirco Amp for distortion.

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Double

Does anybody out there use another type amp modeler that gets a good realistic miked amp sound out of it.

Aint gonna happen...... you've already used the best modelers there are.... if you aint gettin what you want outa those, then seems to me you are just gonna have to bite the bullet and innovate some way to mic a small tube amp...

I have a 50 watt Vox hybrid, I run it at 80% power, it sits inside a amp-sized padded "box" with a mic, and that box is inside my padded mic booth. At 80% power that thing is painfully loud, but people sitting int he room directly above me cant hear the guitar when I record.

It can be done...... and you can do it with a lot less than 50 watts, and a lot less money since you dont need any fx.....

[Outlaws]

Originally Posted by Double

I need another option; I am looking for a better sounding Modeling device. I have tried the PODxt, Behringer V-Amp and still own a Vox ToneLab SE (the best sounding of the three.. IMHO). Yet still I do not use the Vox that much because it still does not sound as good as my 70's Princeton Reverb miked with a SM57, which is still too loud to use for late night recording. I would also like to have a few more tones other than just that one amp to record with. Does anybody out there use another type amp modeler that gets a good realistic miked amp sound out of it. I do not use effects of any type, nor want to. I play mostly blues, roots rock and a little country. For guitars I use vintage strats and telecasters and use an old TS9 or an old MXR Mirco Amp for distortion.

Maybe a Vox AD amp? My friend has an AD30(?...the 10" model) and its great for lots of sounds....and you can mic it without it being super loud. Plus the Line out is nice.

[Zaphod B]

Double, I'm using a Pod XTL for recording. While I accept that a modeler isn't going to get me 100% to the sound of a real tube amp being mic'd, I find that taking some time with tweaking the presets can do wonders.

I've been successful at getting very close to the sound of my vintage Matamp GT-100 tube amp using the Pod's Hiwatt model. I think the Fender models are very workable as well, and the model of the Roland jazz amp is exceptional IMHO.

[scrubs]

I'm not a huge fan of modelers, but I've been relatively impressed with what I've heard from these: http://www.damagecontrolusa.com/main.htm

[ericlingus]

I would look into other direct recording devices like the tech 21 sansamp psa 1 or the tubeman 3 by huges and kettner.

And question to the person who isolates his amp. What do you use to soundproof your box and booth? I have my amp in my closet with foam and sleeping bags but it's not enough. What else should I do?

[Double]

Hey SC I came over here to avoid you Just looking for other opinons

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Double

I need another option; I am looking for a better sounding Modeling device. I have tried the PODxt, Behringer V-Amp and still own a Vox ToneLab SE (the best sounding of the three.. IMHO). Yet still I do not use the Vox that much because it still does not sound as good as my 70's Princeton Reverb miked with a SM57, which is still too loud to use for late night recording. I would also like to have a few more tones other than just that one amp to record with. Does anybody out there use another type amp modeler that gets a good realistic miked amp sound out of it. I do not use effects of any type, nor want to. I play mostly blues, roots rock and a little country. For guitars I use vintage strats and telecasters and use an old TS9 or an old MXR Mirco Amp for distortion.

A friend of mine left his 30 watt Vox Valvetronix amp at my studio to play with for a while. It's got some pretty cool sounds, but I wouldn't trade my '64 (original but slightly modded) Deluxe Reverb for it.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by ggunn

A friend of mine left his 30 watt Vox Valvetronix amp at my studio to play with for a while. It's got some pretty cool sounds, but I wouldn't trade my '64 (original but slightly modded) Deluxe Reverb for it.

Those two amps sound so different....if you really like the sound of one, the other is never going to hack it.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

Those two amps sound so different....if you really like the sound of one, the other is never going to hack it.

Can't I like two totally different things? I switch off between a Strat and a Les Paul, after all...

[ericlingus]

wow im impressed with that demonizer pedal. I watched the videos and it sounds good. Wayy better than the amp modellers. Sounds like the tubeman. I havent checked on the price of the demonizer yet though. If it's cheaper than the tubeman then I might pick it up.

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by ericlingus

wow im impressed with that demonizer pedal. I watched the videos and it sounds good. Wayy better than the amp modellers. Sounds like the tubeman. I havent checked on the price of the demonizer yet though. If it's cheaper than the tubeman then I might pick it up.

I think it's like 350.

[ericlingus]

well it's 300 bucks. I was hoping it would be cheaper. The tubeman2 is the same price.

[Cyrokk]

Digitech makes pretty decent modelers.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by ggunn

Can't I like two totally different things? I switch off between a Strat and a Les Paul, after all...

Oh, hell yes! I'm a Strat / LP guy myself, and I would like nothing better than to have a whole room full of different amps.

But you know how some people are...whatever they own one of, is the best, period.

[killmachine]

take your amp but a Sm 57 near the center of the cone and mic it!!!

[metalj]

I might add one thing that in my opinion gets lost somtimes with modlers.

looks like you use some nice guitars and a nice tube amp that are matched up well. those vintage strats and teles sound great through a tube amp like the princeton amp you mentioned. each one i bet has its own "signature".

Ive found those guitars "signature" wheather it be a lespaul or a tele, or take any of your favorite guitars or pickup combonations and they just all kinda sound the same through the modlers. Yeah the tele will sound thinner/brighter, and the lespaul humbucker style will sound fuller still, but that "signature" sound from a vintage instrument sounds the same as a knock off for 1/2 the price through a modler.

Not sure which solid state amp will give you that sound your looking for.

[Double]

Thanks for all your ideas. I guess the best thing to do (for my needs) is just sell the ToneLab and buy another tube amp. I’ll try something smaller, maybe an old Fender Champ or a Danelectro. I am ½ finished building an isolation box for my amps, maybe that will help. I'm still amazed how loud a 15 watt tube amp can be. Thanks again.

[amra]

Check out the Zvex Nano Head. It is a 1/2 watt all tube head.
Info

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Double

Hey SC I came over here to avoid you Just looking for other opinons

Does the word "ubiquitous" mean anything to you? YOu can check out, but you cant get away.......

Originally Posted by scrubs

I'm not a huge fan of modelers, but I've been relatively impressed with what I've heard from these: http://www.damagecontrolusa.com/main.htm

The Damage Control stuff is the best, especially if you dont need fx. The DC guys defected from Line 6 after being told that Line 6 was going to produce only solid state gear. They are also coming out with a Glass Nexus that has stellar fx. But, as with anything else, you will pay extra $$$$$ for "the best"..... but they are basically tube driven D.I. pedals. Another option, not as good but not as pricey, is Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive, all analog without the tube. Gives a good overdrive sound at lower volume.

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by ericlingus

And question to the person who isolates his amp. What do you use to soundproof your box and booth? I have my amp in my closet with foam and sleeping bags but it's not enough. What else should I do?

For one thing, foam sux - in my ever so humble opinion. Foam is useless for low or midrange freqs, which is what the guitar spits out the most of. I dont use foam at all, except those little foam condoms on my mic.

One key is (I think it's key, anyway) I have one "sound deadening box" inside another "sound deadening box". I built a "box" using plywood floor, 2x2 frame, sound board sides, open on back, top and front so I can move the amp/cab in and out and so I can move mics around. I bought 2 dense movers blankets (they are cheaper than "sound balnkets") and an old thick sleeping bag and sandwiched the bag in between two blankets using those big office binder clips. The 3-layer blanket is big enough to drape over the box, and it covers the front (where the mics sit inside the box) it covers the top and sides, it leaves enough room for the amp to ventilate, and the amp is closed back anyway. But the back of the amp sits about 6 inches from the wall of the booth. So I have a 3x3x3 box covered with this 3 layer blanket, sitting inside my mic booth. If I use my closed back Vox AD50VT, people upstairs cannot hear the guitar. If I use an open back cab they can hear it, but it's muffled and they can still watch tv and talk without distraction. It gives me great isolation in the control area when I mic the speaker. I can really hear exactly what the mic sounds like.

Lately I've been setting just a speaker cab in there instead of an amp, and I keep the amp in the control area. This way I can tweak the amp at will, and hear the results on the monitors via the mic. Then I know exactly what my recording will sound like. I've got it to where I cant hear any difference between the live mic and the recorded playback. Makes it much easier to dial up the right sound in the control room, since I have all the amps and the pedals and mixer and recorder sitting right there next to me while I play guitar.

The booth is framed from 2x2's, maybe 6' or 7' square, 7' high, and I have maybe two dozen sound deadening blankets stapled to it for walls and celing, inside and outside (the floor is concrete basement floor). Then I slid sound board in between all the blankets. All this does is create a dead space around the mics, since cinder block basement is useless for recording anyway. To reduce noise we framed a divider wall around the furnace, effectively seperating the furnace and bathroom from the other half of the basement. The mic booth pretty much forms the north wall of my studio, between the control area and the divider wall. I also have 6 free-standing sound deadening panels around my control area so I can mix without getting reflection and standing waves.

I think the combination of having a "box in a box in a room" is what cuts down on the sound so much for me, especially since the room is a concrete cinder block basement and the booth is free-standing and is not fastened to the house in any way, it just sits on the concrete floor. It sounds way better in the mix than it would sound if I had no box and no booth. Your closet walls probably do more to resonate the sound than isolate it, since your closet is essentially one of the boxes, and it's fastened directly to the rest of the house......but its' better than no box at all.

[Double]

SC I guess you are everywhere And thanks but I already have a sparkle drive. I just use it for live work for that semi distorted rhythm work, kinda like Keith Richards 1/2 clean - 1/2 distortion sound.

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Double

I guess the best thing to do (for my needs) is just sell the ToneLab and buy another tube amp. I’ll try something smaller, maybe an old Fender Champ or a Danelectro. I am ½ finished building an isolation box for my amps, maybe that will help. I'm still amazed how loud a 15 watt tube amp can be. Thanks again.

I'm still shocked at how loud my 15w Traynor is, but that Greenback just screams.

I am very, very curious about that 5 watt Epiphone tube amp. It has a speaker and a volume knob, thats it. If you had a couple of pedals, I bet it would just rock! For $100 bucks how can you lose???

But this YCV20WR might be the last amp I'll ever buy (assuming I never win the lottery! then I wold be saying the name "Rivera" a lot!)! I love this thing!

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Double

thanks but I already have a sparkle drive.

Well, that means it was good advice then! But dont thank me, I got the tip from MixAndBurn! That guy knows tone! He steered me to the VooDoo Lab Sparkle after I balked at the price of the DC stuff. I'm enjoying my Sparkle Drive immensely! The Analog Chorus is awesome too!

[sile2001]

Originally Posted by amra

Check out the Zvex Nano Head. It is a 1/2 watt all tube head.
Info

Man I was listening to that thing and thinking "hey, that sounds pretty good! I wouldn't mind having one..." and then I saw the price....there is no way in hell i'm paying $450 for one of those.