Drum sampler through effects processor?

[RVLVNGDRS]

First of all i just wanted to know if it's even "doable" to plug a drum sampler (alesis dm5 for example) through an effects processor (Ensonic DP/4 for example).

And if this works, will i get like : a snare sound with delay? or a bass drum sound with distortion? just to name what i THINK will happen.

im asking this because im getting an alesis dm5 for my acoustic triggers and 1 electronic trigger on my kit, and i want to know if i should get an Ensonic DP/4 to get my anticipated results.

Thanks to anyone who replies.

[petermiller]

are you planning to run yje output of the DM5 right into the fx unit? then into whatever it is you are using to amplify/record/mixer. If you are using a mixer just run that through an aux send and bring it back in on another channel and mix wet/dry.
If you are running the DM5 into the FX unit than make shure that the gain structure is good. and that you mix enough dry signla into the equation to give the desired effect. The DM5 is line level on the output so it should work.

[Tim Brown]

Peter is right - you really do need a mixer to do it right, but yes - it will work.



Tim

[RVLVNGDRS]

I do have a mixer, Allen & Heath...but anyways, as for the whole "Physically Plugging Stuff" part, i'm completely lost...

actually, im not really thinking about that right now cause im still waiting to have everything in front of me first, but the thought is always lingering in my head and it's quite scary actually...

ok, you guys said it will work, but what if i want , for example, delay on snare, and reverb on bass drum and something else on my electronic trigger...would this be possible?

Thanks again

[Tim Brown]

Okay, here's how you hook it up:

The effect unit gets connect to the effects send/return loop.

Mixer effect send/output -> effect unit input

effect unit output -> either the mixer effect return, or into one of the channels of the mixer.

That's only possible if the effect unit has several channels and can process them all at once.

Normally - you MAY be able to process two different channels with two different effects - depending upon the unit. I'm not familir with the unit you are buying, but the odds are the most you'll be able to get out of it - is two effect channels, say reverb on one side, and delay on the other.

Normally, you don't want delay on a drum - but I'm not sure what kind of music you're doing, so this may just be something you want to experiment with.



Tim

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Mixer effect send/output -> effect unit input

effect unit output -> either the mixer effect return, or into one of the channels of the mixer.

where does the sampler go?

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

where does the sampler go?

What sampler?

The Dm5? The Dm5 is a soundmodule, but not a sampler.

You would plug the 4 outputs of the Dm5 into 4 channels of the mixer.
Then you would attach the triggers on your drums to the appropriate inputs of the Dm5.



Tim

[Seeker of Rock]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

ok, you guys said it will work, but what if i want , for example, delay on snare, and reverb on bass drum and something else on my electronic trigger...would this be possible?

Absolutely. Just get an effects unit that has like four to six separate processing engines and you're set.

Tim Brown is right about the setup, delay etc. You will likely use reverb on your drum sounds, flange if you want your tracks to sound like Kashimir. If you have a couple of different effects processing units (and most units have the ability to process two separate effects simultaneously...like two effects in one box) you can add different types of reverb to different drum components...warm room to a snare or rich plate to a kick, etc. A little $$$ to do this if you are using decent effects processors, though, unless you already have them or have a nice chunk of change burning a hole in your pants.

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

What sampler?

The Dm5? The Dm5 is a soundmodule, but not a sampler.

You would plug the 4 outputs of the Dm5 into 4 channels of the mixer.
Then you would attach the triggers on your drums to the appropriate inputs of the Dm5.

oh ya sorry...i think i called it a "sampler" cause i saw that it has a high "sample rate" or something....sorry bout that

ok well here's another thing...i wanted to use that trick that Tim said a while ago where you plug the acoustic triggers into the "Key Inputs" of the compressor to control the gate...how would i go about plugging the triggers into the compressor (DBX1066) as well as plugging them into the DM5?

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Seeker of Rock

Absolutely. Just get an effects unit that has like four to six separate processing engines and you're set.

does anyone have any good suggestions? 300$-500$????

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

oh ya sorry...i think i called it a "sampler" cause i saw that it has a high "sample rate" or something....sorry bout that

ok well here's another thing...i wanted to use that trick that Tim said a while ago where you plug the acoustic triggers into the "Key Inputs" of the compressor to control the gate...how would i go about plugging the triggers into the compressor (DBX1066) as well as plugging them into the DM5?

Okay wait a minute - why are you trying to do both? That doesn't make sense. If you're not micing the drums - you don't need to run the trigger into the key. The triggering unit defeats the entire trigger into the key inptu 's purpose. Since you're triggering rather than mic'ing, gating the drum sound really won't be an issue for you.


In fact, you're going to probably need to put some kind of foam inside your drums to knock the volume down a bit anyway (I'd just use Remo Muff'ls)


Tim

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

does anyone have any good suggestions? 300$-500$????

I don't think anybody makes one in that range. The only model I know of that's out these days is the 4-channel Eventide -and that's almost ten times the price range you're in.

The best suggestion I can give you on effects units - is go look on E-bay for a used Yamaha Rev 7 or Rev 5. They were about $1,000 when new -and you might be able to pick one up for as low as $200 used. They are only stereo models, but better than anything that's out there today in the pricerange.

Don't worry about having a different effect on everything - in fact, the more you get into recording, the less effects you'll find you use on drums. They start losing their impact when you start soaking them in reverb.
Sure they sound "big" with verb on them - but they also sound farther away in the mix.



Tim

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Okay wait a minute - why are you trying to do both? That doesn't make sense. If you're not micing the drums - you don't need to run the trigger into the key. The triggering unit defeats the entire trigger into the key inptu 's purpose. Since you're triggering rather than mic'ing, gating the drum sound really won't be an issue for you.


In fact, you're going to probably need to put some kind of foam inside your drums to knock the volume down a bit anyway (I'd just use Remo Muff'ls)


Tim

i AM micing the drums...AND i want my snare and bass drum to create special sounds as well as their normal sound with the dm5.........well, at least IF that's possible...and that was my question

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

i AM micing the drums...AND i want my snare and bass drum to create special sounds as well as their normal sound with the dm5.........well, at least IF that's possible...and that was my question

Okay, what you are going to have to do, is use two triggers on the drums you also wantto gate - one into the Sound Module, and one into the key input.

(I use two triggers on each drum anyway, in case one fails.)

Tim

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Okay, what you are going to have to do, is use two triggers on the drums you also wantto gate

FACK! triggers are so expensive

just out of curiosity, does gating the drums with that trigger technique really affect the sound that much?

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RVLVNGDRS

FACK! triggers are so expensive

just out of curiosity, does gating the drums with that trigger technique really affect the sound that much?

The reason I came up with that technique for controlling the gate was out of necessity. It was to help keep the bass guitar from opening the gates - My bass player had a 3,000 Watt bass rig with EIGHT 15" speakers sitting less that 24" from my hi-hat - and whenever he would hit a note - the gates would "flutter" because the mic's picked up the bass guitar sound. So, using the triggers to control the key made sure that the gates only opened when the drums were actually struck -rather than just when a loud audio level activated it.

Hell, try using a Y cable on the triggers - it might work - but I personally would use 2 separate triggers.
(Keep this in mind - you're buying triggers so they are expensive - I built and installed triggers inside my drums - so my drums are just like Roland V-drums with real drumheads on them.)




Tim

[RVLVNGDRS]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

The reason I came up with that technique for controlling the gate was out of necessity. It was to help keep the bass guitar from opening the gates - My bass player had a 3,000 Watt bass rig with EIGHT 15" speakers sitting less that 24" from my hi-hat - and whenever he would hit a note - the gates would "flutter" because the mic's picked up the bass guitar sound.

oooooooh....ok then....ya my band and i never really jam that loud, and my bassist has an Eden 410 combo so i don't think i will have the same problem as you did...

actually the reason i was so obsessed with that idea was because i thought you'd get a "more pure" drum sound from each individual drum...but i guess if it won't affect my sound as much as i thought, ill just leave the "trigger-gate-control" thing out.

thanks for all the advice...really helps a lot

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