Yamaha AW1600 - Worth getting?

[Zorlee]

Hello!
I've written some threads about this up and comming home studio project of mine. I have saved money for a Studio computer for a long. Today I started looking at these "Studio-in-a-box" systems. I wasn't so sure about this, but I started to read up on some of them. Then I suddenly came across the Yamaha AW1600.
This thing costs approximately the same as the computer I was thinking about. But if I get the computer I need a mixer and an interface and such.
And I really don't want to use THAT much money on this project, I just want to make some good quality recordings.
And if I understood this correctly, I can edit all the things I record on my computer. This way the editing won't be limited...

Do you guys have any experiences with these SIAB systems? I have always loved Yamaha's quality, but I want to get as much information as possible before buying anything...
I will be recording some band situations, but probably not all the instruments at the same time. Will this machine do the work? Is it userfriendly? (I'm a complete newb at recording). And last but not least, is this decition much more limited than getting a computer with mixer+interface? I'm going to edit the recordings on a computer anyway...

Thank you guys in advance!
You're the best

Yours sincerely
Zorlee...

[jeffree]

Zorl, there's pretty good split between those of us (like me) who prefer a SIAB approach and those who prefer a computer-based system. Some folks use both, too. I think there are great reasons for each approach, and you need to weigh the advantages of each before deciding. A search at this forum will reveal the major pros/cons.

You might also want to head over to the user-created forum for the Yam 1600/aw16g and ask the same question. Many folks there have used a computer-based system in the past or still use a combo of both approaches.

http://forum.dijonstock.com/

Personally, I use two computers constantly for my career and really enjoy the change to the SIAB approach each night. I've used the Yam aw16g for three years now and have 0 complaints. An excellent value, and the newer 1600 adds some fine features.

Good luck,

J.

[MK-Ultra]

To me, the main weakness is that the last 8 tracks are in linked pairs that can't be unlinked. If that isn't a problem for you (it was for me) then go for it.

[Sloan]

The awesome thing about the new Yamaha unit is that it has so many xlr/line inputs AND usb 2.0. That way, you kind of get the best of both worlds, track wit h the unit and just polish it on the pc. Also, the yamaha would be awesome for on site live recording.

[Zorlee]

Originally Posted by MK-Ultra

To me, the main weakness is that the last 8 tracks are in linked pairs that can't be unlinked. If that isn't a problem for you (it was for me) then go for it.

Okey, like the complete newbie I am, I don't know what that means. Could you explain this to me?

I was thinking... On this machine, can I do many overdubs? I was thinking, can I record drums all 8 tracks, then later overdub with bass and such? Is this possible?
And when you send the files to the computer, will you be able to edit each track? You won't get just one track from the machine, you'll get all different tracks separated from the AW1600?
Sorry if this is confusing to read

Zorlee..

[MK-Ultra]

Originally Posted by Zorlee

Okey, like the complete newbie I am, I don't know what that means. Could you explain this to me?

I was thinking... On this machine, can I do many overdubs? I was thinking, can I record drums all 8 tracks, then later overdub with bass and such? Is this possible?
And when you send the files to the computer, will you be able to edit each track? You won't get just one track from the machine, you'll get all different tracks separated from the AW1600?
Sorry if this is confusing to read

Zorlee..

Hi,

It means the last 8 tracks are in stereo pairs, that are controlled by only 4 faders. This cannot be altered. There are workarounds for it, but it is a pain in the butt.

Overdubs are the main reason for having a multi-track unit, so, yes, you can. I don't know about how many tracks you can import (and then immediately manipulate) into the computer at a time.

[Zorlee]

Thank you man! Highly appreciated
I think that this machine might actually be the way to go.
But do you guys have any experience with the preamps on this thing? Are they any good? Or are they noicy stuff?
I was going to buy a Yamaha MG 16/4 mixer, so I'm not comparing to the really pro preamps, but will the preamps on the AW1600 do the job? For drums, vocals and such?

Thank you very much!
Zorlee...

[MK-Ultra]

The pre-amps will likely not be great, so if you are going to invest in a machine like this, you might think about buying an external mic-pre.

They range in price from about $50.00, to about $50,000.00.....

See, once you start down the path to the Dark Side of the Gear Aquisition Force, there will always be new and better toys to buy.

It all depends on what your plans are, ultimately. I decent pre-amp and a couple of condenser microphones are pretty much necessary, if you want to take advantage of the fidelity that the AW1600 can give you.

Best of luck!

MK

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by MK-Ultra

The pre-amps will likely not be great,

Absolute Bullshit!

This is how misinformation and disinformation is propagated all over the web! Critizing a product that you have no experience with on 'general principles' is a poor practice at best. The 'accepted wisdom' that the microphone preamps in the AW1600 can't POSSIBLY be any good because the price is right is very dangerous. And in this case, very wrong.

I have used the AW1600's older brother, the AW16g, for the last I-can't-even-remember how many years, and have found the two internal mic premps to be at least the equal of any Mackie, ART, Rane, Joe Meek, Soundcraft M-series, or any other 'industry standard' you'd care to name. If you have evidence that Yamaha has cut back on the quality of the AW16g mic preamps because there are more of them in the AG1600, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, MK-Ultra.

And Zorlee, I have seriously been thinking of selling my AW-16g and buying an AW1600. I looked at every self-contained hard disc recorder now on the market and in my view the AW1600 can't be beat.

[MK-Ultra]

Um,

ART, Mackie, Joe Meek, etc, are not what I would call 'industry standards' in pre-amp quality.



Go flame someone else, child. I have nothing to sell this person, no ego at stake here, and I'll speak my mind when and how I choose to. Grow up.

[Zorlee]

Thank you guys so much for the feedback
Well... I've been thinking about some things. I want to be able to record some synth/keyboard stuff. Up until now the plan was to get a midi-keyboard and use soft synths on my computer.
If I buy the AW1600, I don't have a computer avaliable.. What can I do? Any tips?

[60's guy]

Zor,

From: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...228500,00.html

MIDI Remote Control
The AW1600 integrates easily with MIDI gear, too. It allows full parameter control via MIDI commands, so you can record scene changes as well as control changes from the AW1600 to a MIDI sequencer, for example, and then reproduce the recorded operations precisely when the sequence is played back. If you’ll be using the AW1600 with MIDI gear such as a Yamaha MOTIF ES series synthesizer, the AW1600 includes a number of control "templates" that instantly set it up for convenient remote controls from the synthesizers keys and encoders.

Another good resource:
http://www.awinspire.com/forums/index.php?Cat=4,5

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by MK-Ultra

I'll speak my mind when and how I choose to.

And do your level best to stop me from doing the same.

The name of this BBS is 'Home Recording dot com'. The preamps I named ARE the standards for most recordists here.

Maybe it would make sense to you to use a $5000 mic pre with a $1200 recorder, but I don't see it that way.

[MK-Ultra]

"Get a life. Just because I took you down a peg doesn't mean I need to 'grow up'. You don't deserve dear old Wallace and Grommit as your avatar.---ssscientist"


How's about a $500.00 RNP, Little One?

Methinks you need 'a bit of harmless brain alteration!'

[stetto]

Is it just me or has there actually been a lot more Yamaha DAW threads lately?

Zorlee, there's absolutely no buyer remorse from me for buying an AW1600, and I buy virtually NOTHING without regretting it one way or another...The Yamaha is about as complete in the box you can get, AFAIC. I'm having issues with MIDI right now, but it's operator error (I found out that I actually have to know what I'm doing ) and not the machine...

I doubt you'll find better for the money, and the Yamaha is still wrapped in a metal case!! Go figure that one, eh?...

...I could give you a lot of argument against going the PC route, but it would be personal bias and not experience-based. But my assumption was, when making the decision myself, that a PC-based DAW would inevitably become a money pit...Just like my personal and business PCs have...

Good luck on your decision...

Eric

[MK-Ultra]

Ohhh, and I see jeffrey left me an anonymous red chicklet. Ain't that special? At least SS had the balls to sign his.

[jeffree]

Originally Posted by MK-Ultra

Ohhh, and I see jeffrey left me an anonymous red chicklet. Ain't that special? At least SS had the balls to sign his.

I'm sure you're a great guy, MK, but your rancor here was just too irritating during my peaceful morning coffee. Zap. I felt better. Nothing personal.

J.

[60's guy]

Originally Posted by jeffree

Nothing personal.

J.

Bullshit! I've read enough written by you to have seen that you show a tendency to get your pantyhose all bunched up whenever anyone talks down the Yamaha recorders and then you go and blind side the guy with an anonymous little red chicklet. On the brightside at least you owned up to doing it. There's room enough for everyones opinion if you choose to allow for it. By the way the preamps on the Yamaha recorders aren't all that bad depending on what's in front of it. If it's an SM57, forget it. Use an external preamp. Some LDCs work just fine with the onboard preamps. Some require a little help. Tell you what, dude. Why don't you just outline, for the unknowing of us, just how you go about recording using only the Yamaha preamps and avoid all your tracks being muddied up.

[jeffree]

Originally Posted by 8tothebar

There's room enough for everyones opinion if you choose to allow for it.

I agree completely. My opinion, to those who ask the question, is that Yamaha makes a fine SIAB for the money. I have no personal stake in Yamaha, nor does it bother me if others disagree. Life's too short. Your statement implying something otherwise is offbase and unsupportable. At worst, I usually throw in a plug for the aw16g user forum, which I was a charter member of a few years back. It's a good place for questions like yours.

I'm not sure why you're asking me about the mic pres, though, since I've never had much to say about them. I think they're OK, workable, for a low-budget system like mine, but I've also inquired here before about M-Audio's pres, which may be in my future. Still, I haven't had any special trouble with muddiness in my 16-track mixes although I only mic my acoustic guitars. If you're interested, you could check Recording mag's review of one of my tunes in the October '05 edition, which makes a special note of the solid/impressive sound of my acoustics using just a non-boutique guitar, a SP B1, and no external pres. I recorded the signals as hot as I could and kept any processing to a minimum, which worked pretty well. Keep in mind that I'm talking home recording here; when I need more, I use a local studio.

J.

[NLAlston]

Hey there 'Z',

You know, I can't even begin to express how sorry I am for getting rid of my AW16G. That was one absolutely-super-amazing SIAB, and I really should have held on to it. The machine you are looking at (the upgrade to my former AW16G) most definitely has the capability to take your projects from their infant stages - all the way through to their final 'radio-ready' masters. Like yourself, I thought that I wanted to go 'fully' into computerized operations for my works. So I sold my AW16G, bought a powerful new computer - as well as the Lexicon Omega Audio Interface, and thought that I was good to go. There has been nothing but headaches for me, since making the change, and productivity has been nothing at all to speak about. There was a learning curve, yes, with the AW16G. But I can tell you that (even with my limited knowledge of the machine's capabilities) I was able to churn out some VERY nice sounding pieces on it.....and I do mean a good number of them.

The computer will always serve a purpose for me, but I am going to get me another Yamaha Super Box - the AW1600. And you can best believe that I will hold on to that one .

You'd be very, very happy with it.

[Zorlee]

Thank you guys so much for the feedback!
I'm probably going to buy the AW1600! =) But I'm not completely sure, I still have some (before I get the money, hehe) to deside.
I will buy these microphones for my drums: SM57, Audix D6 and 2 x Studio Projects B1.
So that's the microphones that I'm going to need preamps for... So I'll at least start out with the onboard preamps on the AW1600. I hope I will get some decent recordings with them...

Keep the feedback comming - I love to read about your experience with this SIAB!

[iwanarock]

My two cents ....I bought a Yamaha AW4416 when they first came out years ago and still have it and use it. Yamaha makes a quality product and I get great recordings out of it and highly recommend Yamaha. Yamaha also offers some upgrades paths to their recorders with add on cards like the Waves Y96K card, and expansion cards, etc, which I believe the AW1600 supports as well. All in one boxes are in deed handy and provide most of what you need to get up and running quickly without having to buy and wire a bunch of stuff and components together. Editing on a PC is probably easier but can be done on a standalone. The one lacking piece I see on the AW1600 (which is a limitation I have as well on the AW4416) is a monitor port to attach an external monitor. That would be a very nice feauture that Yamaha continues to ignore on their multi-track recorders. But with the USB functionality you can eventually get the best of both worlds if you go this route. Yamaha sound quality on their recorders is indeed very good. PC solutions also are very good, but dont have the mobility of a standalone.

There is a learning curve with these boxes, make no mistake, but they do deliver the goods if you invest the time required to fully understand and utilize the technology built into these boxes.

There also is a very good web site that was started for the AW4416 and then the AW2816 but now has a section for the AW2400,AW1600 as well. That site has a lot of very knowledgeable users who are more then willing to assist you in the learning curve.

the site is http://socialentropy.com/aw4416/

[firby]

Originally Posted by jeffree

I agree completely. My opinion, to those who ask the question, is that Yamaha makes a fine SIAB for the money. I have no personal stake in Yamaha, nor does it bother me if others disagree. Life's too short. Your statement implying something otherwise is offbase and unsupportable. At worst, I usually throw in a plug for the aw16g user forum, which I was a charter member of a few years back. It's a good place for questions like yours.

I'm not sure why you're asking me about the mic pres, though, since I've never had much to say about them. I think they're OK, workable, for a low-budget system like mine, but I've also inquired here before about M-Audio's pres, which may be in my future. Still, I haven't had any special trouble with muddiness in my 16-track mixes although I only mic my acoustic guitars. If you're interested, you could check Recording mag's review of one of my tunes in the October '05 edition, which makes a special note of the solid/impressive sound of my acoustics using just a non-boutique guitar, a SP B1, and no external pres. I recorded the signals as hot as I could and kept any processing to a minimum, which worked pretty well. Keep in mind that I'm talking home recording here; when I need more, I use a local studio.

J.

BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN!


ha
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[jeffree]

Good to see you back around these parts, Nate. Seems like you were gone for a while, or maybe I just didn't catch any of your posts.

J.

[NLAlston]

Originally Posted by jeffree

Good to see you back around these parts, Nate. Seems like you were gone for a while, or maybe I just didn't catch any of your posts.

J.

Hey there, my good buddy ~

Yeah...I had been quite encumbered by a number of very negative issues & circumstances. But all is indeed better, now, and I am trying to get back into the flow of things. I had been visiting, on occasion, but not being of the spirit to say much, or linger long. Once again, things are much different now - and I really appreciate your concern.

Great hearing from you.