Newbie question on Snare head replacement

[COOLCAT]

I took my kids broken snare in and bought a new 14" head.

Being a guitar player myself, I'm used to tuning easily.(and don't have a clue on drums).

This snare tuner was $70 so I couldn't swing it right now. As he has broken snare, broken cymbals etc..higher priority stuff just to get the thing up and running.
With the tuner the sales guy mentioned 90 on top and 80 on the bottom.

Anyway, I put in the head and did the criss cross type pattern as the sales guy said. With no $70 tuner.

But how do I know if its too tight or too loose?
I want the head to last a long time. Their band is just starting and they haven't learned the finese of volume, so it can get "smashingly" loud...if you catch my drift.

Non of us have the "ear" either, being starters.

[Minion]

There is no set rule as to the Tention of your Snare, It all has to do with the Sound that you Prefer...

For me I personally tune the Bottom Skin Quite Tight and then Tune up the Top skin till I get the Sound I want...

Some Poeple Like a Really Tight Snare that produces a Loud Cracking Sound and some Poeple Like a Looser snare that has a lower Boomier sound, I personally like mine somewere in Between....

A Tighter Snare will probably sound better for general Rock/Pop Music were a Lower snare might be more suited to Metal or Death metal....A Tighter snare will probably last longer also because it will get dented less easilly...

You can also get Many Variations in sound by trying different tentions of the Top and Bottom skin and with the Strainer at the Bottom (that springy thing that goes across the Bottom skin).....

So I say just Tighten it till it sounds good....

Good luck

[Russtopher]

tighten the bottom head until it wants to scream for a lawyer

tighten top head to taste. I prefer medium tension, meaning you can push down on the head with your hand, and it will have some give to it.

Although the kids love that crazy tight sound that sounds like your snare is made of formica, you will break many more heads that way, in addition to possibly doing wrist damage (er, your son will rather).

There's absolutely NO need for any tension watches, or anything of that sort. Just tune as you did in a criss-cross pattern, if you want lightly tap next to each tension rod and you'll be able to hear which ones may need to be turned a little more to get a nice even tone.

Any drumhead will break if beaten mercilessly. Some thicker 2 ply heads, like Evans G2s will last a bit longer (especially those with a power center/power dot).

[COOLCAT]

thanks for the words. he'll probably pick up the "ear", that sounds to be a natural way to do it.

he is at a stage where he kind of knows the sound he wants but can't get there, and I'm cluless on drums. thanks again.

we'll play around with tuning it. interesting you mentioned the tighter the less dents?

Evans genera hd dry is whats on the snare skin they sold us.
I imagine he'll want knew heads on all of the cheaper clear stock peices.

damn, i almost feel sorry for drummers all the shit there is to buy and maintain!! geez....10 heads, 5 cymbals, 5 stands, pedals, sticks...

guitars its amp/cable/guitar and <$5 picks/strings.

[Chris Shaeffer]

Yeah, but how many drummers do you know that have 6+ kits?

Here's a fun drum tuning link:

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

Have fun!
Chris

[Cody Suit]

i tighten the crap out of my batter head on my snare. i like the snappy ness. plus my stick bounces back alot faster so i can kinda use the momentum to play faster grind or blast beats.

[NegadivOne]

the genera dry is an awesome head. Like stated above, the tension you choose is completely about personal taste. I used to use remo weatherking heads and tighten my snare batter head as tight as i could possibly get it. I thought it was cool untill i started recording and actually heard how it sounds. I switched to the evans genera dry because they last a long time and they sound good tight or loose.

[Guitarmaster]

Tuners for drums are a generally bad idea for anyone. They can help begniners tune there kit to a good standard but the touble is they never find the sound they like because the just tune it to there standard settings! But they can make a kit sound really good. So its a toss up but i woud usuaul say have a go first.

[L mandrake]

Cody I see that you have a audix d6 in your arsenal. Do you like it? Where do you usually place it in the kick ?
Just picked one up and havent had a chance to try it out yet.

[COOLCAT]

Originally Posted by Chris Shaeffer

Yeah, but how many drummers do you know that have 6+ kits?

Here's a fun drum tuning link:

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

Have fun!
Chris

i had to read that 3 times..i get it now,
yeah...its getting common my guitar friends have 6 guitars and 5 amps..good point. and now that tube amps are popular again, $$$$ in tube replacements.

lot of info in that link. thanks.

good info on the Evans heads, glad to read that.
really strange not knowing if their ripping you off or not.

I agree, with the tuning comment to experiment, but again like guitar strings if your too far over tight they snap! so I was concerned with overtightening and ruining the new head.
Its on there now and working and didn't break.
he needs to work on it and read.

[ez_willis]

Originally Posted by COOLCAT

he is at a stage where he kind of knows the sound he wants but can't get there

I've been at that stage for years now.

[Cody Suit]

Originally Posted by L mandrake

Cody I see that you have a audix d6 in your arsenal. Do you like it? Where do you usually place it in the kick ?
Just picked one up and havent had a chance to try it out yet.

usually inside the kick about as close to the batter head as i can get it but usually a little off from the middle.

i find it's got a really good slappy/clicky sound to it.

[drummer_goat]

Originally Posted by COOLCAT

like guitar strings if your too far over tight they snap! so I was concerned with overtightening and ruining the new head.
Its on there now and working and didn't break.
he needs to work on it and read.

I use Remo Emperior X heads, and I've found that the more plys the tighter it will need to go to get rebound. For single ply heads you might have to be concerned with that but afterwords I'd say you would have to be putting a lot of force on the drum key to do this. Emperior X's are nice because they have a black dot in the middle of the head, that is a seperate parcial 3rd ply. I find I have to tourque these much harder than standard 14" emperiors.

I would recommend tuning the bottom "resonate" head very loose than tighting the top "batter" head until enough rebound is there to do double strokes at ease. Then tune the resonate head until its at the desired sound. This way you have a much slimmer chance of damaging the drum head. As I'm sure you know use a star pattern changing heads, so the pressure on all sides of the drum is the same while you tune. This will make it so there are no "ripples" in the drum head, which will lessen the life span of the head.

First thing when you get a new head on is to tighten all the connecting rods until the touch the rim, and start to torque. Then I start turning 1/2 turns in the star pattern at first to get the job done faster. For the later tuning when the head starts getting snug but still not enough rebound I switch to 1/4 turns of the drum key in the star pattern. Keep in mind that the most imprortant think is to keep the head smooth(no ripples) so do not be concerned with every lug in the star pattern getting the same rotation of the tuning key, but more that the pressure you put into them is close to the same.

Think of it this way; If you can't get enough rebound to do a double stroke the batter head can be tightend more. My snare head is tight as a rock. The tighter the head the less the ware, the longer the life of the head. Still don't overdue it. The biggest problems I've had overtightening heads is that they get streched more than I like and that was the toms. Another thing is to tune every day, at least in the begaining because they will untune for a couple days(still don't force every connecting rod to move because some may not need tuning).

Hope this helps

[COOLCAT]

I didn't know they de-tuned?
the star pattern and feel/pressure we did.

as far as tuning, is something he'll have to learn apparently.
in other words no $14 guitar electronic-tuner type things available.

the cymbal methods was good info. too. (expensive, even the lower line!)

as you can tell, I'm at the "get it in the tuning-ballpark and don't break anymore cymbals" stage. 3 toms to replace, but their not broken.

Never realized the white or clear head terminologys either, good read.

[phaqu]

These are a few different ways to tune drums.I guess Ive tried just about all of them. One thing that a lot of people dont realize is that drums can have a tuned pitch. Hit your tom, after the initial strike, youll hear the overtone ring.It gets higher with decay, but still lingers on at a realativly steady pitch. Ive tuned my drums ( always with the cross or star patterns as everyone has mentioned) to chordal progressions for songs before (recording only,no key changes). If you have your guitar around, you can definately hear Ds, As, Bs, flats, sharps.
Another way I tune toms is to hit the empty unheaded shell. Grab it by the lugs and tap the shell with a stick. It will ring. Tune the top and bottom heads to that pitch.
I used to tune my top loose and bottom tight, but now I tune both the same. I seem to get a more powerful sound out of them.( still got to use the smaller zero rings though, but I dont mind).
On my snare, I crank the bottom head tight,untill it almost pings, then tune up the top to where I get a nice bang (Without the snares on),usually pitched somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd toms ( I dont know why) and an octave lower than the bottom head. I use just a small bit of the muffler to dry things up a little. Then slowly tighten up the snares till I get what I think I like.
Anyway, try everything, till something sounds cool.

[drummer_goat]

Originally Posted by COOLCAT

I didn't know they de-tuned?
the star pattern and feel/pressure we did.

as far as tuning, is something he'll have to learn apparently.
in other words no $14 guitar electronic-tuner type things available.

the cymbal methods was good info. too. (expensive, even the lower line!)

as you can tell, I'm at the "get it in the tuning-ballpark and don't break anymore cymbals" stage. 3 toms to replace, but their not broken.

Never realized the white or clear head terminologys either, good read.

I've noticed sense I have gotten DW drums the connecting rods(and all hardware in general)loosen more frequently. This may be that the thread slip, or that over time I have cared about my tuning and drum postions more as I've become a better player. In other words I don't know if the lower level or other brands of kit do this as much.

As for your second question, I do know the on my DW's have a specific pitch that in the factory they say produce the most desirable sound, so I assume that if one cared to get the desired tuning on a DW they could possibly use a cheap tuner. You might be able to get the "desired pitch" for any drums, by e-mailing the right person or whatever, but I think tuning is simply preference. For a time I liked loose toms, then tight now a little loose again. Also possibly the most important thing for tom tuning is getting them to sound in sequence with each other, or however you want to say it; just so their is not a huge change in pitch from one tom to the next.

As for the head terms, "batter" is not always coated(white) or double plyed and "resonate" does not mean clear or thin. Simply the head you strike with the stick is refered to as the batter head, and the head that resonates is called the resonate head. So it just depends on what sounds you want.

[herostyle]

I have a pearl Piccolo, and I tightren it really tight so i can get a loud popping sound. I play Rock, Metal, Experimental, and Jazz.