sync'in separate midi tracks

[Modern_Talking]

I have sequenced a song in Cakewalk using about 9 tracks. I have recorded those 9 tracks (individually) onto my hard disk (Fostex vf160ex) recorder while the sounds were being played back from my sound modules.

I just added (sequenced) a new guitar track in the same song but I just wanted to record that new guitar track into the H.D recorder with the other 9 tracks already recorded in there.

How do I sync them up.. My H.D rec already has 9 tracks recorded and when I hit play in the sequencer, the timming is off with the H.D and the Seq. . .

Even though when all the midi tracks are playing in Cakewalk, they are all sync'd and perfect.
I Don't want to recoed all the midi tracks again and go through all the eq's and compressors etc again just because I didn't add this new guitar track in the song before, before I recorded it to the H.D.

I just want to add this new seq. track to the H.D while sync'ing with the other midi tracks recorded on the H.D. Meaning when I hit play in the sequencer (Cakewalk) and hit Record (Fostex) the guitar track is being recorded onto the H.D rec (onto a separate new track) while the other audio tracks are still playing.

I hope I managed to explain myself clear enough what I'm trying to achieve.

thanks.

[ssscientist]

I pick one or the other, either my standalone HD recorder or the computer.

From your description it sounds like you're just complicating the process to introduce the Fostex recorder at this stage of the game.

You can use it as a mixer for your external sound modules, then run the stereo outs into the line inputs of your interface so everything is in sync w/Cakewalk on the computer, then mix it and burn it to CD...

Don't be afraid to leave the midi tracks as midi tracks. They're a whole lot more flexible and a whole lot more editable that way without going to the trouble of bringing them down to audio.

[Modern_Talking]

Originally Posted by ssscientist

I pick one or the other, either my standalone HD recorder or the computer.

From your description it sounds like you're just complicating the process to introduce the Fostex recorder at this stage of the game.

You can use it as a mixer for your external sound modules, then run the stereo outs into the line inputs of your interface so everything is in sync w/Cakewalk on the computer, then mix it and burn it to CD...

Don't be afraid to leave the midi tracks as midi tracks. They're a whole lot more flexible and a whole lot more editable that way without going to the trouble of bringing them down to audio.

hi . . and thanks for your response. . . . . Just a few notes. I am using my H.D rec to record my audio and I don't use the computer's interface. I only use the computer for the sequencer.
My sound modules are hooked up to a midisport 4x4 interface which is hooked up to the computer through USB.

Now, all my modules assign outs go into the mixer. Then I assign sub outs on the mixing board and connect the 8 sub outs from the mixer into the H.D rec input channels.

Now what happened was, I recorded all the part (drum,bass,keys etc) but now I created a new guitar track and I want to to record that into the fostex. My fostex is my main recorder and mixdown machine as it also has a cd burner in there to burn cd's after mixdown.

And also I want the flexabilty from the H.D rec when I want to cut out a certain part (bass or drum or guitar etc) and mixdown the rest of the parts to a stereo track and then burn to cd, it will be all at finger tips. This is why i record all parts individually onto the H.D so that I can remove any part I don't want on the cd as opposed to recording to a 2 track and then when you want to remove a part, you can't. . . .

if the above is still sounding complicated, then any suggestion would be appreciated as to how can I record this new guitar track to existing parts on the H.D.

All existing parts on the H.D are recorded individually and waiting to be balanced and mixdown. But before I do the mix down I want to add in this guitar track on lets say ch 9 on the H.D rec and then do a mixdown.

My Sub outs from the mixing board are connected as follows to the Fostex:
Mixer Sub outs 1 & 2 --> H.D rec track 1 & 2
Mixer Sub outs 3 & 4 --> H.D rec track 3 & 4
Mixer Sub outs 5 & 6 --> H.D rec track 5 & 6
Mixer Sub outs 7 & 8 --> H.D rec track 7 & 8

setup of the H.D rec is as follows for recording the sound coming from the sound modules :
H.D rec Track 1 & 2 - Horns (L/R) (Sax,Trumpet Flute etc) get rec here
H.D rec Track 3 & 4 - Drums (L/R) (Precussions, Sound Effects etc) get rec here
H.D rec Track 5 & 6 - Guitars (L/R) (Rythum, Lead, Acoustic etc) get rec here
H.D rec Track 7 & 8 - Keys (L/R) (Piano, Strings, Orgas etc) get rec here

Now I engage switches on the mixing board to send the appropriate sounds from the modules to the appropriate subs outs. For example my drum module's L/R are connect to ch 20 & 21 on the mixing board and I engage sub switches 3 & 4 etc etc . . . So it goes through the sub outs and goes into the H.D recorder (track 3 & 4) to get recorded without any other instruments or sounds going in there. Same thing I do with tracks 1 & 2 and route only the horn sounds to that sub and record . etc etc . . .

So, how I have recorded all my individual parts and I can do a balance, put eq's or effects or compression etc before mixdown. But Now I want to add this new guitar track. Obviously I can't record onto track 5 & 6 on the H.D rec because they already contain guitar parts (I know I can overdub onto track 5 & 6) but I want to use a new track (track #9) and record this guitar track there. This is where I'm lost.
thanks

[Synkrotron]

Are you connecting the MIDI out of the Fostex to a MIDI in on your interface to you PC and software?

I use a Fostex VF08 and Sonar and I set Sonar as the MIDI slave and the Fostex as the master.

When set up like this, you press play in your sequencer first and then press play or record on your HD recorder. The sequencer waits for an incoming signal that your Fostex will send. They then play as though they are synchonised.

You need to make sure that the settings are the same for each device (25 frames or 30 frames non-drop etc... check your manuals for more details).


good luck

[Modern_Talking]

Originally Posted by Synkrotron

Are you connecting the MIDI out of the Fostex to a MIDI in on your interface to you PC and software?

I use a Fostex VF08 and Sonar and I set Sonar as the MIDI slave and the Fostex as the master.

When set up like this, you press play in your sequencer first and then press play or record on your HD recorder. The sequencer waits for an incoming signal that your Fostex will send. They then play as though they are synchonised.

You need to make sure that the settings are the same for each device (25 frames or 30 frames non-drop etc... check your manuals for more details).


good luck

hey .. thanks for the suggestion and that's exactly what i am trying to achieve. I will give that a try and see how I make out ..
As for the hookups.. No, I have nothing connect to the fostex's MIDI.

but here is a quick question. I am using a 4x4 midisport midi interface which is connect through the USB to my computer. Ch ABCD on the midisport are hooked u to my sound modules and I guess i have no more room to kook up any more modules or upgraded to a 8x8 interface.

On my computer, I am using a audiophile 2496 sound card and nothing is connected to that midi port.
Can I connect my fostex midi in to the 2496 soundcard midi out and leave the rest of my midi connected to my midisport and achieve what you mentioned above. Or the fostex has to be somehow connected to the USB midisport interface for it to synchnonised and wait for midi signal to be received from the computer when play is hit in the software. . . .

thanks.

[Synkrotron]

I found that my system worked best with the Fostex as the master and Sonar as the slave. So you really have to connect your Fostex MIDI Out to any of your PC MIDI Input's... doesn't matter which. I then use the Fostex to drive Sonar. If you have a spare MIDI input on your audiophile 2496 sound card then use that.

What I can't remember for sure is whether there are any specific settings in Sonar to tell it which input to expect the master signal from. I think that Sonar detects it from wherever it comes from. I'll check it out when I get home tonight.

One other thing... about your Midisport... Even though you only have 4 in's and out's, you may be able to free one up by going via one of your thru's of you modules. I must admit that, nowadays, I tend to use one port per module myself but in days gone by I'd have up to three MIDI devices daisy chained together. Last year I expanded my midisport setup and now have two 2X2's and one 4X4...


andy

[Modern_Talking]

Originally Posted by Synkrotron

I found that my system worked best with the Fostex as the master and Sonar as the slave. So you really have to connect your Fostex MIDI Out to any of your PC MIDI Input's... doesn't matter which. I then use the Fostex to drive Sonar. If you have a spare MIDI input on your audiophile 2496 sound card then use that.

What I can't remember for sure is whether there are any specific settings in Sonar to tell it which input to expect the master signal from. I think that Sonar detects it from wherever it comes from. I'll check it out when I get home tonight.

One other thing... about your Midisport... Even though you only have 4 in's and out's, you may be able to free one up by going via one of your thru's of you modules. I must admit that, nowadays, I tend to use one port per module myself but in days gone by I'd have up to three MIDI devices daisy chained together. Last year I expanded my midisport setup and now have two 2X2's and one 4X4...


andy

thanks bro for the suggestion . . . I will try thatover the weekend as I will have more time to spend and I will let you know how I made out . . . .
But that sounds pretty much like what I was looking for . . . The master and the slave thing . . . . Will check out cakewalk and see if any setting are there for master or slaves . . .

thanks. . . have a good one!

[Synkrotron]

I will let you know how I made out

thanks and good luck

[Modern_Talking]

Originally Posted by Synkrotron

thanks and good luck

good day!!

I finally got some time to play with this thing and yes everything works great now. .

I had to set my vf160ex to master through the setup menu in the recorder as fostex didn't detect automatically. And in cakewalk I had to go into the menu too . . but it all works ok now .. .

thanks.

[Synkrotron]

That's great news... I'm glad to have been of help