Mid/Side and Blumlein

[punkin]

I'm doing a little experimentation. I've had a lot of good results with simple X/Y micing for acoustic guitar but I'm wanting to try a few other things. I've heard good things about Mid/Side.

Every thing I've read suggests to use a bidirection on the parallel (a ribbon is a dead ringer) and a directional on the perpendicular. Anyone done a lot in this area? I'm currious what you would use for the perpendicular (directional mic) an LDC or a smaller pencil mic like the MXL603? I've tried several mics now and I'm really not diggin it. Doesn't sound bad but to me the trusty old X/Y seems to work better.

Oh and for Blumlein...forget about it! I don't have the patience for that! Sounds all swooshy and phasy (don't know how to explain it better...just the sound of suck). Using two ribbons (not matched or even the same brand)...wish I had a reasonably matched set. Not so sure that's the heart of my problem though.

[Robert D]

Hi Punkin (that sounded wrong),
I like to use M/S in a big room on strings, but for acoustic guitar I'm usually looking for a more intimate, but still spatial sound, and close miced X/Y usually gives me that. M/S is a great micing technique, but my experience has been that it really needs to be a great sounding space, and it's best on instruments that really want all that space around them. But by all means, keep experimenting.

[punkin]

Originally Posted by Robert D

Hi Punkin (that sounded wrong),
I like to use M/S in a big room on strings, but for acoustic guitar I'm usually looking for a more intimate, but still spatial sound, and close miced X/Y usually gives me that. M/S is a great micing technique, but my experience has been that it really needs to be a great sounding space, and it's best on instruments that really want all that space around them. But by all means, keep experimenting.

Thanks Robert,

I've got a terrific live room to work in. Just wondering what combo of mics do you use when you do M/S? If you're backing off, I'm assuming an LDC for your center mic and then what for the side mic?

Just currious.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by punkin

Thanks Robert,

I've got a terrific live room to work in. Just wondering what combo of mics do you use when you do M/S? If you're backing off, I'm assuming an LDC for your center mic and then what for the side mic?

Just currious.

I've used a ribbon mic....but any bipolar mic will work. The ribbon is just smooth and captures the nuances better. I can't really remember which one it was I used though I used it at the time for the room mic for drums as well as for a large choir in a large church sanctuary.
Like Robert, I'd recommend M/S for larger, spatial material. Although you have a live room to work with, I'm not so sure a large space is what you're looking to capture when recording acoustic guitar with M/S. If you're wanting to capture the ambience (ie. a large church or something) of the guitar playing and blend it with a stereo mic closer to the guitar...that might work nice. But I agree that a more intimate approach would be nice.

[punkin]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

I've used a ribbon mic....but any bipolar mic will work. The ribbon is just smooth and captures the nuances better. I can't really remember which one it was I used though I used it at the time for the room mic for drums as well as for a large choir in a large church sanctuary.
Like Robert, I'd recommend M/S for larger, spatial material. Although you have a live room to work with, I'm not so sure a large space is what you're looking to capture when recording acoustic guitar with M/S. If you're wanting to capture the ambience (ie. a large church or something) of the guitar playing and blend it with a stereo mic closer to the guitar...that might work nice. But I agree that a more intimate approach would be nice.

Ok..could be the application. I've got a 25'x20' room. When I get up close it sound nice, clean and smooth but the imaging isn't there as I thought it would be. moving back, the guitar gets a little more distant it seems to loose all the intimacy. Probably just a bad fit solo acoustic guitar.

Thanks guys.

[Robert D]

Of course the whole point to M/S is that you can blend the amount of direct and room sound after the fact by mixing the amount of mid and side component. But with acoustic guitar, I find that you end up with so much mid, and so little side, that you end up with a much richer sound with X/Y.
One thing you might want to try is doing two tight takes in X/Y, then pan one more to the left, the other more to the right, but not hard panned. That makes a really full and rich acoustic gtr sound.

[Richard Monroe]

Well, I wish I could say that I went through my million dollar mic cabinet and selected the right Schoeps and vintage Neumans for the job. I use the best mics I own, because they are what I have. With the mics available to me, the best combinations are: B.L.U.E. Kiwi side and Neumann KM184 mid, or- C414B-ULS side and KM184 mid. It comes down to- the Kiwi and the 414 blow any other figure 8's I have out of the water, and the Neumanns are the best small diaphragm mics I own. I like the 414 a lot for close mic'ing acoustic, but haven't been that impressed with it as the mid mic of an MS pair, where I want a little more distance, and a little more room sound. I don't really care for the Kiwi as a close mic on acoustic, but backed off as the figure 8 mic in an MS pair, it rocks!
I'd love, as I said, to try this out with some other mics, but they're what I have, and I'm fairly lucky to have the mics I do. They aren't Brauners, but they aren't Nady either.-Richie

[punkin]

That is a tasty selection of mics you have. I take it that you too aren't a big fan of M/S for acoustic guitar work. I guess I could see where it might be a better approach for a larger group of instruments or voices where the sounds are all blended as in a choir or small instrumental group. Where the sounds and voices are already controlled to fit the room and the presentation.