recording with a metronome?

[coolsoundman]

The other day, me and my brother were listening to a song that we recorded and found out that the song had some bad tempo spots. Some parts of the song would speed up and then slow down. So we recorded the song again, but this time we recorded the bass guitar and the electric guitar only. And this time we kept time with the metronome on the recording software. Now my brother says that it sounded a lot better and to me it seems that we would use this method from now on. I just want to know if you guys ever used a metronome for your recordings, or are you just good at keeping in time with each other?
Thanks for your comments.

[Dani Pace]

Metronomes and click tracks are pretty standard, very few (if any) people have "perfect timing." I found the click or tic to be a little annoying then I discovered a "strobe metronome," just a pulsating LED with a speed (tempo) control, no noise, simply an aid to help stay on time a little better. I have also found a strobe unit works well for drummers who say a click track annoys them.

[Thunder33]

I dealt with this last weekend. If a drummer insists that he is a human metronome and does not need a click, punch that drummer in the face and inform him/her that they are sadly mistaken.

[Synkrotron]

Originally Posted by Dani Pace

Metronomes and click tracks are pretty standard, very few (if any) people have "perfect timing." I found the click or tic to be a little annoying then I discovered a "strobe metronome," just a pulsating LED with a speed (tempo) control, no noise, simply an aid to help stay on time a little better. I have also found a strobe unit works well for drummers who say a click track annoys them.

Interesting...

can you get these strobe metronomes in a MIDI flavour? and perhaps with two different coloured LED's, green for down beat and red for everthing else?

[Fletcher]

Yes.

My daughter has one from "BOSS"... it makes an audible "click" with an accent on "1" and two different LED's... you can turn off the audible "click" and just look at the pretty lights if you'd like.

There are pro's and con's to playing to a click track.

First off... if you're not very used to playing with a click it can do way more harm to the feel than good... and it takes a couple/tree years to get comfortable playing with a click.

Second, I've found that in some songs, they want to speed up and slow down in various parts to make those parts a bit more dramatic/fit the emotional statement better.

There are two parallel universes... "greatness" and "perfection". While those universes will sometimes touch, they rarely [if ever] overlap... so, while "perfection" is way easier to attain [see 99.998% of the drek on the radio for an example of "grid perfect/pitch corrected perfection"]; "greatness" should be what you're trying to achieve [see old Led Zeppelin records that the kids are still listening to 30-35 years after they were first released for an example].

That said... if the band has an idea of what a soul tune might have smelled like before 'grids' and 'auto tune' came to conquor the planet... then you might want to program some percussion loops [shaker, maracas, tamborine, fish, nunchuks, whatever ya got, whatever feels right for the song]. You can even program in tempo changes if you think it helps the feel of the song... and, as an added bonus, the result is usually like the players are grooving to a really locked in percussion player rather than the tutonic rigidity of a "click track".

Best of luck with it.

[gcapel]

I hate the metronome in cubase. I usually use reason to make a temporary drum track or tracks if the tempo changes. Export the track as a wav. Import into cubase and wah laa you have a tempo to play with. Record the guitar track first or bass which ever the drummer feels comfortable playing along with. In the past in a band i was in recorded the drum tracks first and I played along with him.. He had played one of the songs to fast. Oh crap. We didn't have time to go back and re-place all the mics and record drums again. So we had to compensate the bass and guitar take after take till we got it right. So it is much better to get it right the first track recorded!

[altiris]

Originally Posted by gcapel

I hate the metronome in cubase. I usually use reason to make a temporary drum track or tracks if the tempo changes. Export the track as a wav. Import into cubase and wah laa you have a tempo to play with. Record the guitar track first or bass which ever the drummer feels comfortable playing along with. In the past in a band i was in recorded the drum tracks first and I played along with him.. He had played one of the songs to fast. Oh crap. We didn't have time to go back and re-place all the mics and record drums again. So we had to compensate the bass and guitar take after take till we got it right. So it is much better to get it right the first track recorded!

In cubase you can select another sound for the click and you can change tempo any time in the arrangement. if you go over your song you can write down when these changes happen and you can set them even before you even start recording. so the tempo change will occer automatically.

[funkydrummer]

i use a boss dr beat metronome for all my recordings. once you learn how to play in perfect time to the metronome, the next step is to learn how to push and pull the time within given tempo.

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by altiris

In cubase you can select another sound for the click and you can change tempo any time in the arrangement. if you go over your song you can write down when these changes happen and you can set them even before you even start recording. so the tempo change will occer automatically.

I am fully aware of this. I still hate the metronome in cubase. I get a much better feel of the song using a drum track.

[Synkrotron]

You can even program in tempo changes if you think it helps the feel of the song

Yep, that's what I do... using Sonar, I set out a tempo map that changes throughout the song and I get the drummer to track to that. When the rest of us come along with our guitar, bass and keyboards, I turn the click off and we all play to the drummer. This gives the drummer a little bit of latitude and he's now getting used to the idea. The main reason I give for playing to a click is that it gives me better control of the editing stage, assuming I have to do any, in Sonar. I generally don't need to quantize but I find that I do need, every now and then, to cut and drag an odd beat or two that may have strayed a little too far without haveing to get the drummer to replay the offending phrase (and I always find it a pain getting the levels bang on for the overdubs especially if it's a day or week or two down the line).


I'll look up that Boss metronome... sounds like a great idea providing it can be MIDI'd

[fraserhutch]

If you've actually practiced your instrument to a metronome, a click trick is no problem to play to.

[Farview]

Playing to a click is a skill. It takes a while to do well, but it will pay dividends in your playing. Everyone should learn how to play to a click.

I normally use a cowbell sound.

Playing to a click doesn't rob you of feel, playing to a click badly does. But, then again, playing badly in general will kill the feel.

[jabulani jonny]

Sometimes I use the click, but I prefer to setup a loop of a straight ahead shaker track or a drum loop of just bass drum and snare to help the drummer. I find this is less annoying than the click and helps the drummer feel like they're playing along with other musicians. Maybe use a conga loop or something like that. It'll keep them on time and still let them get into the feel of the song without feeling to "clinical".

Jonathan

[mrface2112]

i agree with everyone above about how everyone should learn to play to a click. it'll pay dividends when you go to play live, etc. most drummers are notoriously sucky when it comes to keeping a steady tempo--and most guitar and bass players are too.

typically when recording myself i'll set up the tempo track (with changes if needed), then i record a scratch guitar part to that, and then i'll lay down the drums with the guitar and click playing. after the drums are down i'll lay down bass and replace the guitar tracks.

if i'm recording someone else and the drummer has never played to a click before, his first time will NOT be during the recording session. same with recording "jam sessions" (namely a couple people on acoustic instruments)--no click for that.


cheers,
wade

[Zed10R]

Originally Posted by coolsoundman

I just want to know if you guys ever used a metronome for your recordings, or are you just good at keeping in time with each other?
Thanks for your comments.

ALWAYS. Being in time is critical. Not being in time is careless sloppiness and I hate careless sloppiness. Besides, once you get used to click tracks, your live performance really tightens up.

[Dogbreath]

I use a metronome from my board, or a quantized beat from my Yamaha QY100 sequencer til I get real drums in there, or if I lay down drums first, I set up a delay that's in time with the beat I want and record em using the delay tempo as my timing.
Just a thought...


Guess I should add that I don't keep the delay...just use it for timing...

Oh, and I always use either a metronome or one of these ways when I record. ....

[Reggie]

Yeah the Cubase audio click sux. I turn on the lm7 VSTi and use the Clave sound for the MIDI click.

The click can ruin the feel of a band that isn't used to playing to one. Most times it isn't necessary; it just helps you if you have to do a lot of editting, and makes setting delay times and stuff a lot faster.

[Fishmed]

Funny thing, I learned how to play against a a click track (Drum Machine) and now I have a hard time playing with some live drummers.

[Theo_C]

Depends what sort of music you're playing. Most modern music uses heaps of percusssion. If you don't have a click track as a reference it's almost impossible to sync the different instruments. I agree with the idea of using a click track and putting down a drum track first. The drummer will never be perfectly synced to the click track. Then get rid of the click and play all the other instruments to the drums, it sounds much more fluid (like a human is playing instead of a machine), I use this method a lot.

Other times I don't use a click track at all, especially if playing "rubato" i.e. freely with no particular rhythm, which classical musicians do many times. Using a click track in this situation sounds awful. So it really depends what you are recording, if it has percussion use a click, if not, try it without, experiment, it's all about getting the feel right, not necessarily playing in perfect time to a machine.

As for Cubases click, yea it sucks, but so what, you only use it to get a decent rhythm track down then turn it off.

Cheers
Theo C

http://www.theoc.co.nz

[Nick98338]

Originally Posted by Sillyhat

Playing to a click is a skill.

Yep! So, with my little group, we get one person, who is relatively good with a tick track, to record a guitar rhythm part with main vocal. Then playback that track when everyone else records. Then delete that track from the mix later. It's a garbage track, but the one making it still has to do a good job.

[bogart24]

I play guitar, drums, bass, etc... and I have recorded with a click track and i have to say that it always sounds too robotic for me. I have used a drum machine to program a song, and then gone over it with real drums, but it still sounds sterile. Not to say that I have perfect timing (believe me I don't) but I think that it sounds more natural and more "rock" without a click track. I just want to avoid Sterile. I think a lot of home studio stuff has no balls to it because everyone is worried about it sounding "perfect".

[peopleperson]

Yeah, sometimes putting a click track to a band doing basic tracks can take all the fire out of the performance. I personally really dig using a click, cause when I do, I'm locked to a tempo grid in my host and editing parts are a lot easier if needed and besides that, the majority of drummers I've dealt with really really need the tempo help.

[BrentDomann]

I think the best option, though also the most time-consuming one, is to have everyone learn to play the song on their own at a particular tempo using a metronome, and then (if possible) track everyone together without a click track.

The advantages of this are:

A) Each individual will improve as a player in his/her own right.
B) Though few if any people have perfect rhythm, the more players you have with good rhythm the less likely it will be that everyone screws up if they are listening to eachother.
C) Not using a click track allows some breathing room, while using a click track often sucks the "feel" out of a performance.

On one more note, nothing beats hours upon hours of practice. Even if things speed up and slow down a reasonable bit, getiing the band tight is of utmost importance. A good solid "hit" from every instrument isn't effective if everybody flubs into it at a different time. The point: playing together is often far more important that having perfect timing overall.

[HangDawg]

The thing I always bitch to the drummers about is when the get excited, not only do they speed up, but they tend to start bashing shit. This doesn't happen as much if they play with a click because they are more tuned in to what they are doing. Fucken drummers anyway. I think at the gig saturday night, somewhere in the middle of a song I'm just going to crank my amp up so it drowns eveyone else out. I'll make sure my cab is pointed right at the drummers head. When he mentions it, I just tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about. It's the same volume that I started with.

I may also end the 120bpm punk song at around 80bpm with the same stupid remark.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by BrentDomann

while using a click track often sucks the "feel" out of a performance.

The key word here being SUCK! Most people who make this comment CANT play to a click because they have no FEEL to begin with. If they did, they could FEEL the click track and play with it.