Overhead Choice for Upcoming Project

[ndycus1]

In an upcoming recording i'll be doing for a punk/hardcore-ish band, my mic choices for drums will be very limited when recording drums (because i will have to use the band's mics instead of my own). The mic collection i'll be using consists of a D112, SM57's and 58's, a Neumann TLM103 (the only mic of mine i'll have with me), an AudioTechnica AT3035, and a pair of AKG C1000s. I figured i'd use the D112 for kick, and the 57s and 58s for snare and toms. But, What do you think I should use for overheads? I've used C1000s for overheads in the past, and can't say that I'm a fan. But, I was wondering whether or not using an AT3035 and a TLM103 would be a bad choice or not because of their different frequency responses. What do you think would be a better choice for overheads? The pair of AKG C1000s? Or a combination of an Audio Technica AT3035 and a Neumann TLM103? Thanks for your input.

[giraffe]

probably the mismatch..........
Fletcher was saying that he does it all the time, if it's good enough for him then it probably wont kill you.

[ndycus1]

thanks for the input! does anyone else have an opinion on this matter?

[Middleman]

If it sounds good, it is good. Anything goes. Keep the 3 to 1 rule and match the levels. If it sounds off based eq-wise then move things around.

The 3035 might be a bit brighter, possibly harsh closer to the source and the 103 a little smoother on the highs. Use that to your advantage, if the snare is a little edgy then put the 103 on that side. Your ride cymbal is generally more midrange than the crash cymbal and the 3035 might work better over on the ride side.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by ndycus1

thanks for the input! does anyone else have an opinion on this matter?

Yeah, personally I think that if you're doing punk/hardcore, you should keep the drum setup really simple and raw; a pair of 57s X/Y'd or ORTF'd immediately in front of the kit at a height halfway between the toms and the cymblas, with the D112 covering the kick. Angle the 57s straight back or down as needed to get the balance between the cymblas and the drums. Spread the resulting stereo with kick drum track package about 30 degrees (-15L to +15R degrees) on the soundstage. EQ, press and verb to taste. Save the TLM and the 3035 for vocals, ambeince, etc.

G.

[giraffe]

i used to use 57's as overheads (when i had no choice), i wouldn't suggest it.

[treymonfauntre]

i'd pick the mismatched pair for sure, but why not try both real quick and see which one actually sounds better?

[giraffe]

you can always go mono.
or maybe M/S, can the 103 do a fig8????

[B_rad]

I use the c1000's all the time. They work well when used correctly. Once again SSglen is got the right idea. I also use a D112 and try putting a 57 on the beater side, you can get some good punch. You can hear the C1000's here.......................http://www.geocities.com/bradgolemon/

Oh and get a drumdail to tune and mic placement is a huge factor. I also try to get a good sound so you dont have to EQ everything and do a bunch of crap to get it to sound good. Have fun................

[gummblefish]

use one overhead

[ndycus1]

I can't do m/s. The tlm103 can't do figure 8. Soutside Glen, what would cause you to choose the 57's as the overheads. I can tell from what you wrote that you think I should try to go with a very minimalistic approach. but, i don't understand why you would choose these over the others.

[treymonfauntre]

i think he was being tongue in cheek saying that all punk music should sound bad

[Bierman]

I once used a 1000 on snare and it sounded great, but it was for a big band so thats not exactly anything similar to what you're doing. use your ears!

[giraffe]

i've heard good things about the 1000 on snare actually, but i'd be willing to bet that the bleed could sound like poo.

[ndycus1]

i've heard good things about it on snare too. it would definitely be worth a try, because i'd like to brighten up this band's snare anyway. if there is too much bleed, i'll just go back to a 57. but, i was mainly just looking for opinions on overhead choices. i think, though, that i'll end up using the AT3035 and TLM103 combo just for the fact that I've never done it before. if it really sucks, then i'll just take it down and go with the AKGs.

[Renascent]

What are you using for preamps?
If the snare sounds dull, use your best preamp on the 57 for the snare. We AB'd a 57 and a 414B with a Focusrite liquidchannel and a Mackie 8bus and the 57 sounded amazing on the liquidchannel, 414 sounded like poop on the 8bus. It's all about the preamps in my opinion
Good luck with the project, sounds fun

[ndycus1]

Tampa, Envoice, DMP3, various low-end pres in this situation. But, once again, I'm not asking for advice on my snare sound. I'm asking about opinions for the overheads.

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Originally Posted by Middleman

If it sounds good, it is good. Anything goes. Keep the 3 to 1 rule and match the levels. If it sounds off based eq-wise then move things around.

The 3035 might be a bit brighter, possibly harsh closer to the source and the 103 a little smoother on the highs. Use that to your advantage, if the snare is a little edgy then put the 103 on that side. Your ride cymbal is generally more midrange than the crash cymbal and the 3035 might work better over on the ride side.

I never understood this. How is it even possible to do the 3 to 1 rule with overheads? I've never seen this done in pictures of drum mic setups in "big studios". What I usually do is angle the mics away from each other, this works well for me because my overhead mics are super bright on axis to begin with(c42's), and it lessens phase cancellation.

[jabulani jonny]

I'm not sure what your budget is or if you'd even think about adding another pair of mics at this point, but I've not heard one good thing about the C1000's...ever. Well, let me restate that, I've heard their usability is extremely limited.

With that said, you can pick up a pair of Joe Meek JM27's for about $90 with mic bar mount to do XY or ORTF. I have heard good comments about these for budget SDC. Just something to think about.

Jonathan