Critique my recording

[Jsn7821]

http://realstatic.com/samples/firsttest.mp3

How did I do? any tips?

[jonnyc]

Sounds like a raw recording with reverb. Cymbals are really tinny and harsh. It was also pretty noisey all around. What type of set up are you using? How many mics on drums? Guitar amps? If I had a little info maybe I could give you some tips.

[Jsn7821]

I added a little reverb on the snare, and "hard limiting" on the kick drum. I have cool edit pro, and have never really messed around with the effects much. Those two made it sound a bit nicer.

I have two Studio Projects B1's as overheads, a SM57 on the snare and an audio technica Pro25 on the kick. Bass is line-in, guitar is a Sennheiser e609.

This all goes into a Behringer mixer, the Eurorack UB1832FX. I boosted the snare 4db in the 3k range, and cut some highs off the overheads. Other than that everything is flat. The overheads are panned hard left/right.

Then each goes into a delta 1010lt and recorded by CEP.

Do you think the noise is caused by low quality cables maybe? Or more due to the fact that I'm using onboard preamps?

[jonnyc]

I'd say the noisey pre's could be the problem however I've used Behri gear and don't recall it being that noisey. I think you might want to turn the cymbals down a bit, use a lot less verb on the snare. Have you tried getting a good kick sound with just a little eq. Also how are you placing the mic in the kick? I've found that a proper tuning and mic placement can make a kick sound amazing. I used to eq the hell outta my kick then use a multiband to fix whatever was wrong. After getting pissed I figured I'd stop doing it the lazy way. You might want to play more with mic placement. Also you don't need to use effects to make songs sound good, I rarely use any effects and I think the last band I recorded turned out really decent. I'll see if I can get a sample up tomorrow of an instrumental with just a little eq touch on every track, and some very light compression on the master channel.

[Jsn7821]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I'd say the noisey pre's could be the problem however I've used Behri gear and don't recall it being that noisey. I think you might want to turn the cymbals down a bit, use a lot less verb on the snare. Have you tried getting a good kick sound with just a little eq. Also how are you placing the mic in the kick? I've found that a proper tuning and mic placement can make a kick sound amazing. I used to eq the hell outta my kick then use a multiband to fix whatever was wrong. After getting pissed I figured I'd stop doing it the lazy way. You might want to play more with mic placement. Also you don't need to use effects to make songs sound good, I rarely use any effects and I think the last band I recorded turned out really decent. I'll see if I can get a sample up tomorrow of an instrumental with just a little eq touch on every track, and some very light compression on the master channel.

I have the snare tuned really lose right now (I have a lot less reverb then it sounds, next to none really), I thought it was cool at the time - does it sound odd? I'm no drummer.
I thought the kick sounded alright, I have it about 18 inches out, facing at the drum. Do you look for more click in the drum? I was thinking about throwing a PG48 (a $30 shure mic) near the beater just to get a bit of click. I was going for a smoother thump to the kick when I set it up.

As far as the overheads go... I need some advice .. what should i try? I've got them both set up in a technique i read on these forums a long time ago. One is two sticks up from the snare, and one is the same distance but over to the right. Should I try anything with EQ or effects or anything? I have to pick up the cymbals and toms with them. Studio Projects B1's.

[jonnyc]

Listening to the song again the snare isn't horrible. But now I'm hearing some scattered distortion, is the bass distorting? You're kit sounds very late 60's ish. When you say the mic is 18" out so you mean off the batter head or actually outside of the drum itself? As far as the over heads go I do the xy pattern over the middle of the kit and kinda low on it, its important not to be hard on the cymbals when you do that or period for that matter. Hit your drums harder, cymbals lighter. You're guitars sound a little too far back in the background. If you could maybe make them louder or use less reverb.

[Jsn7821]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Listening to the song again the snare isn't horrible. But now I'm hearing some scattered distortion, is the bass distorting? You're kit sounds very late 60's ish. When you say the mic is 18" out so you mean off the batter head or actually outside of the drum itself? As far as the over heads go I do the xy pattern over the middle of the kit and kinda low on it, its important not to be hard on the cymbals when you do that or period for that matter. Hit your drums harder, cymbals lighter. You're guitars sound a little too far back in the background. If you could maybe make them louder or use less reverb.

the kick is outside the drum itself. Here are some pictures, and i saved each track seperately.

SM57 on the snare
picture
mp3

Audio Technica Pro25 on kick
picture
mp3

Studio Projects B1 over kit
picture
left
right

I appreciate your help a lot. (others can chime in too )

edit: heres the post I used to set up my mics http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39030

[gcapel]

the actual music being played is killer.

[Jsn7821]

Originally Posted by gcapel

the actual music being played is killer.

thanks, ill post some full jams once I get the recording smoothed out.

I can hear the distortion but I can't isolate where its coming from. It seems that it doesnt appear untill I have all tracks going at once, but I'm beginning to think its caused by the bass - in the clip itself I can't hear the distortion. bass mp3 clip

[jonnyc]

You need to get the mic in the kick. If you do that you won't need a two mic set up. Most people freak out about cutting a hole in the reso head but don't sweat it, if you want you can just take the reso head off, but the mic really really needs to be in the kick. I can say that I also liked the tune so don't think its the song I'm being harsh on because it isn't. Try to get the snare mic closer to you strike point and also move the mic closer to the hihat pointed away from it to help prevent extra bleed, although you do want some bleed from it. With LDC's you may want them a bit more off the kit, a little higher maybe. Also if you can try that stereo configuration I was talking about. You could also just start with a mono three mic approach instead of trying to do stereo. Your style of music has that kind of bluesy raw feel and keeping the micing on the kit simple may actually benefit you.

[Jsn7821]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

You need to get the mic in the kick. If you do that you won't need a two mic set up. Most people freak out about cutting a hole in the reso head but don't sweat it, if you want you can just take the reso head off, but the mic really really needs to be in the kick. I can say that I also liked the tune so don't think its the song I'm being harsh on because it isn't. Try to get the snare mic closer to you strike point and also move the mic closer to the hihat pointed away from it to help prevent extra bleed, although you do want some bleed from it. With LDC's you may want them a bit more off the kit, a little higher maybe. Also if you can try that stereo configuration I was talking about. You could also just start with a mono three mic approach instead of trying to do stereo. Your style of music has that kind of bluesy raw feel and keeping the micing on the kit simple may actually benefit you.

I will try messing around with some of your suggestions this evening. How should I position the mic in the kick drum? I will probably need another stand that has a neck on it? Right now I have it just on a little peg stand (you can see that in the picture i put up).

[NDL]

snare: -come in on the head next to your highhat and point it toward the drummers crotch --let the overhead capture the highhat....

Kick: -bring the mic inside the drum about mid point --turn it slightly left -away from snare (facing drums) move back and forth to capture attack....

Overheads: many different chooses on positions but---you want to capture the overall sound and feel of the drums with overheads so keep them high and try not to center the capsules on any one piece unless you want that particular piece hilighted.....

[jonnyc]

I usually point my kick mic slightly to the left and about 6 inches off where the beater hits, and yeah you'll probably need a stand with an extension arm.

[chessrock]

I like the drums.

Bass isn't bad. Guitar is a little bit muddy.

Overall, it's pretty decent for what it is.

.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Sounds like a raw recording with reverb. Cymbals are really tinny and harsh. It was also pretty noisey all around. What type of set up are you using? How many mics on drums? Guitar amps? If I had a little info maybe I could give you some tips.

Maybe the mp3 clip has changed but I don't hear any noise. A little finger noise on the bass is all I hear. It does sound like the bass is distorting at times. Guitar sounds kind of dull to me. The recorded sound I mean, not the playing. I don't hear anything tinny or harsh either. Are my ears bad? I've been slammin around 40 ft. sticks of black iron all day.

[Synkrotron]

damn!

36 seconds?

I wanted more

bass just sounds simply too loud to me though and the distortion does appear to coincide with the bass. I'd just bring it down a touch.

I take it you are multi-tracking? What's CEP?

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by TravisinFlorida

Maybe the mp3 clip has changed but I don't hear any noise. A little finger noise on the bass is all I hear. It does sound like the bass is distorting at times. Guitar sounds kind of dull to me. The recorded sound I mean, not the playing. I don't hear anything tinny or harsh either. Are my ears bad? I've been slammin around 40 ft. sticks of black iron all day.

No its just probably my general distain for mp3's. Since I've been mixing, my ears have seem to become hyper-sensitive. Before I ever did this studio stuff mp3's were totally acceptable and never understood that there was even a difference between mp3's and wav's. I did later state that I thought it was more of the bass distorting than anything. Its just the harshness I'm hearing on his stuff seems to be a tad more than I hear on commercial mp3's. But I also agree I liked the playing and song, very cool.

[Jsn7821]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to get the overhead B1's sounding good. They are hissy and tinny sounding, mainly on the hi-hats and crash. It also picks up an ugly frequency from the snare. Just one ugly frequency though

It sounds nice on the toms though.

I've tried adjusting the heights and angles they are facing at, tried EQ'ing them - which im not very good at - and it didn't help. I would adjust the frequency band in cool edit pro, and pick out frequencies I liked or didn't like and mimick those settings on my mixer. Didn't work as well as I thought it would.

Synkrotron - CEP is just an abbreviation i used for Cool Edit Pro

thanks for your compliments on the music

[NDL]

what kind of pre's are you using? --- the B-1's usually have a decent mid and high range ---could you be over gaining them?

[jonnyc]

I believe he's using behri's which is probably part of the problem. Try getting the b1's higher off the kit and play your cymbals lighter, you have to play them lighter. If you play the hihat really open, then close it down more til it has a nice crisp sound.