New Death Metal Mix (need feedback)

[Bloodsoaked]

(This is a Death Metal song, "Killing You" from Bloodsoaked)

Ok, This song is now Mixed and Mastered. I had a "Pro" mix and master the the song. The "Pro" only used 4 of the 4 guitar tracks. He said with the 4 tracks it was to much going on and would make it muddy. Here is his mixed and mastered version:

Mixed and Mastered Version

He mixed it in Mixcraft (the same recording/mixing recording software I use). He emailed me the EQ and other effect settings so I could use them latter on and on this same song if I wanted to add the other 2 guitar tracks. I am posting my mixed and NOT mastered copy to get some opinions and feedback.

My Mix with NO Mastering


I did not like the vocals on the Mastered version too much. I thought they had to my reverb/delay.

So the main differences are:

1. Pro-Version: 2 guitars, vocal reverb/delay, vocals higher in mix, mixed & mastered.

2. My Version: 4 guitars, less vocal reverb, no vocal delay, vocals lower in mix, only mixed and NOT mastered.


Let me know what you guys think. I personaly like my version a bit more as with the 4 guitar tracks it makes the song sound better and I like my vocals much better. I would love any and all comments and feedback. Thank you.


Peter

[pntsmillion]

I liked the mastered version better because I heard more guitars, and personally, I like a little less reverb on the vocals.

[Synkrotron]

Peter,

I listened to your track first then the "pro" mixed and mastered version.

I must admit that, after a while, I kind of got used to the vocals with the reverb and I prefered the guitars to be slightly lower in the mix which is pretty much what I was saying in your other topic.

Having said that... you are the client in this situation and it's really up to you whether or not you give this mix the thumbs up. Personally, I prefer the "pro" mix but there's not much in it to be honest.


One thing I'm going to try, and I'll do it tonight if I get time, is listen to it through my monitors at home. So far I've only listened to this track while I've been at work using my reassuringly expensive sony in-ear jobs (pretty good quality all the same) but what I want to try is listening through speakers with the mix set to mono. I'm wondering if your mix will pass the mono test... I've got a hunch, although I could be miles out with this, that the guitars in your mix would still be overpowering everything else. They don't in the stereo mix because of their placement on the soundstage, but when you convert it to mono the track may not work.


I'll post back once I've done that.

cheers

andy

[pingu]

Its a good idea to have things work in mono.

[Thunder33]

I like your version better, vocally. Guitars need to be more prevailant in the mix on both versions to kind of hide the polished sound of the drum machine. Mind you, I am listening on the worst of speakers right now but that is advisable for any mixing anyway. Remember that your audiance is going to be listening on everything from top of the line to the crappiest of crappy systems. Anyhow, I would stay away from the reverb in the vocals. It makes it sound too old school. Unless that is the sound you are wanting. I just think back to Sepultura/Schitzophrenia.....and cringe. No reverb. Metal needs no reverb! Okay, maybe on the kick....but that is another story.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by pntsmillion

I liked the mastered version better because I heard more guitars, and personally, I like a little less reverb on the vocals.

Hmmmmmm.....The mastered version has less guitars and more reverb in the mix.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Thunder33

I like your version better, vocally. Guitars need to be more prevailant in the mix on both versions to kind of hide the polished sound of the drum machine. Mind you, I am listening on the worst of speakers right now but that is advisable for any mixing anyway. Remember that your audiance is going to be listening on everything from top of the line to the crappiest of crappy systems. Anyhow, I would stay away from the reverb in the vocals. It makes it sound too old school. Unless that is the sound you are wanting. I just think back to Sepultura/Schitzophrenia.....and cringe. No reverb. Metal needs no reverb! Okay, maybe on the kick....but that is another story.

Yeah, I was not a big fan of the way he used the reverb/delay on the vocals, very old school metal. While I love old school metal that was not the sound I was going for with the vocals with this song. So you think the guitar need to be louder in my mix or was your statement of "Guitars need to be more prevailant in the mix on both versions to kind of hide the polished sound of the drum machine", just a general comment for guitars while being used with a drum machine?

Thank you for taking a listen.


Peter

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Synkrotron

Peter,

I listened to your track first then the "pro" mixed and mastered version.

I must admit that, after a while, I kind of got used to the vocals with the reverb and I prefered the guitars to be slightly lower in the mix which is pretty much what I was saying in your other topic.

Having said that... you are the client in this situation and it's really up to you whether or not you give this mix the thumbs up. Personally, I prefer the "pro" mix but there's not much in it to be honest.

Thanks for listening. Yeah, I know you like the guitars a bit lower and I could try bringing them down a bit in the mix. My main thing was to have the 4 guitar tracks in the mix. With the 4 guitars it makes the song much thicker and heavier (to ma anyways). Like during the breakdown when only the guitar is playing on the left side. The "pro" version is a bit weak, but on my version it is still very heavy. You like the reverb with the vocals as well huh? Wow! That was the thing I liked the least.

Originally Posted by Synkrotron

One thing I'm going to try, and I'll do it tonight if I get time, is listen to it through my monitors at home. So far I've only listened to this track while I've been at work using my reassuringly expensive sony in-ear jobs (pretty good quality all the same) but what I want to try is listening through speakers with the mix set to mono. I'm wondering if your mix will pass the mono test... I've got a hunch, although I could be miles out with this, that the guitars in your mix would still be overpowering everything else. They don't in the stereo mix because of their placement on the soundstage, but when you convert it to mono the track may not work.

I'll post back once I've done that.

Great! Please post when your done testing. I would love to read you comments.


Peter

[mharr552000]

I like your mix better. I'm not a big fan of reverb or delay. The guitars and bass sound out of tune with each other on both versions.
I'm listening through a pair of LT-100 headphones. They were in a box of promo crap we got from Logitech about 5 years ago.

[Thunder33]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

Yeah, I was not a big fan of the way he used the reverb/delay on the vocals, very old school metal. While I love old school metal that was not the sound I was going for with the vocals with this song. So you think the guitar need to be louder in my mix or was your statement of "Guitars need to be more prevailant in the mix on both versions to kind of hide the polished sound of the drum machine", just a general comment for guitars while being used with a drum machine?

Thank you for taking a listen.


Peter

I am not sure that the guitars need to be louder. Maybe bring the drums back a hair. I really need to burn a copy of this and take it somewhere to where I can listen to it more objectively on speakers that don't suck. (I am at work when I am on here) I stopped using drum machines because no matter how hard I tried, I could not get them to sit well in the mix. They always stood out like a redneck at the Source Awards. That is why I got into using more loops and samples of real drums. But that is a whole other ball of wax. Anyhow, when I get a chance, I will burn this and take it home to listen to it.

[TheDewd]

Well, I really like the mastered version. The drums are now loud enough for me and the guitars sit much better...
and I dig the reverb on vocals!

Yeah, listening to the original again, 4 guitars is too much. But I have to say that the mastering job the guy did is shite as far as LOUDNESS is concerned. Your mix is much louder which is what I dig. I would not qualify this guy as a matering engineer...it seems he can't pull the trigger on loudness quite well.

[metalhead28]

I like your version better. I think it just sounds more like death metal should.
I prefer the thicker guitar sound, I don't care if it is a little overpowering....it's supposed to be...it's death metal.
I also much prefer the sound of the vocals on your track.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by mharr552000

I like your mix better. I'm not a big fan of reverb or delay. The guitars and bass sound out of tune with each other on both versions.
I'm listening through a pair of LT-100 headphones. They were in a box of promo crap we got from Logitech about 5 years ago.

Really? Out of tune? Hmmm, Dose not sound like that to me and no what has said anything about it. Maybe your Headphones.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Thunder33

I am not sure that the guitars need to be louder. Maybe bring the drums back a hair. I really need to burn a copy of this and take it somewhere to where I can listen to it more objectively on speakers that don't suck. (I am at work when I am on here) I stopped using drum machines because no matter how hard I tried, I could not get them to sit well in the mix. They always stood out like a redneck at the Source Awards. That is why I got into using more loops and samples of real drums. But that is a whole other ball of wax. Anyhow, when I get a chance, I will burn this and take it home to listen to it.

I have listened to the song one 4 different stereos and it all sounds good to me. I like the way the drum machine came out. I did not try and get a "human feel" to it at all. Just a good sound and beats to fit the song. Let me know what you think after you burn the song and take a listen.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by TheDewd

Well, I really like the mastered version. The drums are now loud enough for me and the guitars sit much better...
and I dig the reverb on vocals!

Yeah, listening to the original again, 4 guitars is too much. But I have to say that the mastering job the guy did is shite as far as LOUDNESS is concerned. Your mix is much louder which is what I dig. I would not qualify this guy as a matering engineer...it seems he can't pull the trigger on loudness quite well.

Wel, I really love the mix he did, I just wish he had used the 4 guitar tracks and much less reverb on the voclas. The mastered version was not as loud but still very good. The "Pro" version is much cleaner I think.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

I like your version better. I think it just sounds more like death metal should.
I prefer the thicker guitar sound, I don't care if it is a little overpowering....it's supposed to be...it's death metal.
I also much prefer the sound of the vocals on your track.

I agree about the guitar sound being thicker and a bit louder for death metal. I also lowered the bass on my mix as well. I am not a huge fan of being able to hear the bass picking on the song. Just enough to add some low end. Do you agree?

Glad you like my version of the vocals. They might be a "bit" to loud in the mix but overall they sound much better.

Peter

[Bloodsoaked]

Just incase anyone wants to try their hand at mixing this song there is a thread going now and you can download all the track and mix it.

Check out the: MP3 Mixing Clinic section and the thread title is: Download Tracks and Mix For Fun - *** Round 2 ***


Good luck!!!

[Thunder33]

Like I said before, if you like it, then don't worry about what we think. People need to get back to the mentality of making music that they like first. If I am mixing for another band, then I try to do what is best for everyone. But when I mix my stuff, I mix it to sound good to me first. If no one else likes it, then I guess life goes on. You know? Anyhow, I dig the song though so I am burning it either way!

[Synkrotron]

Originally Posted by Thunder33

People need to get back to the mentality of making music that they like first.

ab-so-lutely... 110% agree with that quote

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Thunder33

Like I said before, if you like it, then don't worry about what we think. People need to get back to the mentality of making music that they like first. If I am mixing for another band, then I try to do what is best for everyone. But when I mix my stuff, I mix it to sound good to me first. If no one else likes it, then I guess life goes on. You know? Anyhow, I dig the song though so I am burning it either way!

I do agree for the most part, I guess I am looking to make sure that there are not anything really bad in the mix like the drums clashing with the bass or the guitars clashing with the cymbals and such. I really have no idea how to know what frequencies the bass is using and then to remove those frequenies from another intrument and so on. That is my main concern.

For someone as new to home recording what might sound great to me as it is my first recording could sound 100 times better if I knew some critical things.

Again, thank you...

[jmxdrummer]

I also prefer your orginal mix. horns up \m/


john


www.hellholestudio.com

[ericlingus]

I like the mastered version better. I like how he added reverb/delay on your vocals. I think it sounds much better IMO. I just think the guitars should have been thicker on the "pro" version. I don't like how the bass is too up front in the "pro" version either. But I guess it had to be done if he took two of your guitar tracks away. So yeah I think the pro version is really good except the guitars in it should have been thicker.

[Synkrotron]

Peter,

As promised, I've finally gotten round to listening to the files linked to above on my humble Tannoy Actives.

I played your mix first followed by the other mastered version.

Now it may be that I'm just not that familiar with the genre (about the heaviest I got back in the 70's~80's was Sabbath plus a view others) so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

But I still prefer the "mastered" version although I'll conceed that perhaps the reverb doesn't suit the vocals to much... needed to be even more subtle.

I still feel that the guitars in your mix is overpowering things just a fraction too much. I agree that four layers of guitar would be better but I'd still bring 'em down more. Sounded to me like some of the guitar parts were fighting for the same space as the drums particularly at the lower frequencies. I must add though that my ears are still as yet untrained especially in listening to a track in a more critical manner than I would normally so you should take what I say with a pinch of salt.

I'm going to have a mess with my version now just to see what I can come up with and I hope to have something for later this evening (my time).


Later

andy

[Creamyapples1]

Originally Posted by Thunder33

People need to get back to the mentality of making music that they like first.

/clap