What happened to real Hip-Hop?

[Change of POETS]

Seriously... where has it gone?

Everything I hear now days, is radio material. Full albums are being made with intent for radio play.

I remember coming up, when Hip-Hop couldn't even get radio play. Albums were made for the streets, and if people were feeling you, you would sell. This ain't talking way way back, either. I mean... 1990-97 when 90% of what was on radio was Grunge music. I remember when they first started spinning "Nuthin but a G Thang" on commercial radio, and the DJ's were knocking it because it was too ghetto. I remember Bone Thugs going double plat on their first disc when "Thuggish Ruggish Bone" was barely getting any radio play outside of the midwest. Anyone else remember their E1999 Eternal Album going platinum off of one single? That single was "First Of the Month", Tha Crossroads Remix didn't break out until about 6 months after the LP dropped, and had already gone plat.

The streets used to drive the music. Every hip-hop artist was judged on their ability to move the people in the streets. It's the same reason why Pac and BIG were the greatest in their era, because they spit that realness that the streets was feeling.

Back then, regardless of radio play or marketing, we ALWAYS knew the release dates on new albums, and we always supported the artists we loved because we could feel them in their music.

It just pisses me off now, that 90% of people are making music with the intent to "make it" instead of making music that's real, and real people can relate to it.

Sorry for the rant... I just miss the old days, when music used to mean something more than a royalty check.

[Diffusion]

I feel you man, I've thought the same shit for years... For me, its got to the point where I dont even listen to hip hop anymore unless its from the 90's or earlier... Other than that I bin listening to blues, jazz, and old gospel music from way back in the day to try to get a better understanding of real music... These days artists generally try to target teens, and make songs that they know will get them money, not whats comes from they heart...

[bknot1]

right now in this world those day are long gone..Im sorry to say..

but i feel you on missin all that

[P. Dexter]

I hear you Change. But all real Hip Hop needs is one act to push it to the top of the charts again and the rest will follow sute. Just like the sheep alot are.


"Keep it old school"

[bknot1]

Originally Posted by P. Dexter

I hear you Change. But all real Hip Hop needs is one act to push it to the top of the charts again and the rest will follow sute. Just like the sheep they are.


Keep it old school

this i dont see happending anymore, im sorry.. right now the music industry has changed to be more hungry for money..Hip-Hop is Classic, you wont find to many artist that will do it like it was and still clear a nice check from the labels(they gotta do something to pay their bills). Like right now the game is some commericalized right now..NY artist can't even push 100,000 units(Remy Ma) Juelz is gold cause his has souther appeal and club tracks..

I would like to see hip-hop come back but it isnt happendin anytime soon..i hate to say..

so right now Hip-Hop is underground, while underground is taking over the airway.. hench the lot of unnamed groups that pop up..then be underground for years..now getting there break..

[Fyre]

i miss them days to and shit I barely got to see those days (im only 18 and i only been serious into rap since i was about 8-10..........

but yea it would be real hard for real hip hop acts to come back up now like you talkin about..... mainly because like everybody said unless you have commerical appeal labels dont wanna sign you, video stations dont wanna play you (BET banned Little Brother), and the people dont buy your music..........

whats goin need to happen is somebody goin have to do it like the south do it and start they own shit and get a buzz so big that tha majors cant ignore it....... then get distribution and go from there

[ethos]

I think a change is comming soon.
People are getting tired of hearing the same songs, just new beat and new rapper.
I think they want something different.
Also, Theres too much going on in the world right now, for people to not want something with more depth, I think everyone in here can attest to turning to music when shits bad. A lot of shits bad right now, and D4L isn't going to inspire anyone, or give them that intangible urge to move foward, like good music does.
It's a matter of time really, bubble gum rap won't survive.
People have been saying hiphop is a fad for a long time now.
It hasn't died, (infact its the highest selling form of music in the history of mankind)
Because it's real, people FEEL it. Nobody FEELS the shit thats being played on the radio today.

Keep in mind also, That a lot of the kids who buy hiphop records today, are like 15 year old girls. Who not only have never heard good/real hiphop, but probably couldnt REALLY relate to it. Eventually, they'll grow up and their love for D4L, will die and be passed off as a teenage fad.

All speculation of course, but it's the way I see it.

[Richard Monroe]

Yo ChangeofPoets! Word- being rich is better than being poor. This is a capitalist world, and money is the primary object for most people. The only people comitted to art over money are the people who think their art can't or won't be sold. The people *with* the money use their money to co-opt the artists with no money so they can make more money. You can piss and moan all you want to about it, but music is a product, and whether it can be sold is more important than whether it is good art. And guess what? The people who buy the product are people who have money, not people who don't. So- the product will be shaped to appeal to the people who have the money to buy it.
Reggae was created in a ghetto in Kingston. It is sold to a white, middle class jew from Long Island. Some people start out to create art and get co-opted by people with money. Some people start out to create- money. Who's more honest? Rather than trying to create a world that promotes art for it's own sake (ain't going to happen), we need to create a world where good art makes money. At least then, the music on the radio will suck less. Right now, nobody knows how to create music that can't be stolen. The answer of the big labels is to produce music for less money. So the big studios with kickass engineers are going belly up, and overcompressed, overlayered, autotuned pop fluff garbage is being cranked out by people who know more about Windows XP than sound. What's needed here is a new business model, one that creates better sound and better art, and sells smaller numbers of units for a higher profit margin. The gear is being made to do it. What's missing is the expertise of those old badass audio engineers, and a way to secure the product. For years I dreamed of the CD-R. The invention of the writeable CD was the beginning of the end of the music industry as we knew it. Now I think we're going to have to kiss a lot of frogs before we meet the handsome prince.-Richie

[CBK]

What happened to real hip hop? The answer is the same thing that happened to the real dj. They have both been phased out by the industry. When MC's realized they didn't need to be just the hype man for the dj, they realized they didn't even need the dj at all. When the industry realized it didn't need a good MC to sell a record... get the point?

There will always be underground hip hop out there. Hell, when I first got into this game it was still underground. Good hip hop is out there if you want it, but I don't ever expect it to have mass appeal. Honestly, what people at each time have considered "good or real hip-hop" has never been commercialy sucessful except for a few exceptions. ie Naughy by Nature, Tupac, Run DMC and a few others.

[salim]

i agree with you, but if what you want to hear or like isnt there create it! put some paint where it aint

[Fieva]

This was a good post. Now I don't see anything wrong with putting out some tracks with the sole purpose to grab commercial attention, but putting out a full album of nothing but commercial tracks is bogus to me. It's like reading an actor's script but never getting to know the actor personally. I think back in the day you got to get a little inside view of real artists and what went through their mind when they wrote, what they thought was important.

Now all you hear about is how much money they claim to make, how many hoes they can fuck, and how they want to drink and smoke it all away.

I still keep ungodly amounts of mp3s I took from my CDs from 94 and up. Personally, I don't even care if I don't "make it" because I only want to do that if I can do it my way, meaning not having to put club tracks on every single song on the album. If that means I don't see huge amounts of money, I'm not concerned. I'm no one's puppet so the labels can keep their strings nicely tucked away in their pockets. The same strings they control artists with are the same ones that they strangle them with later...it's easy to make strings into a noose.

Fie.

[RAM BEATZ]

Hip hop has gone from "I used to Love Her" to now I just F*ck her in my spare time"
Hip hop has been turned out like a kid off the greyhound into a bitch on the corner by the pimps of the industry (record execs). But the falt cant just rest there because the johns (cats who make the bs) just keeps the cycle going. so then you have this image wanting to be emulated by the squares ( average music buyer) who wants to be in so they buy into whats put out. But the reality of it is it only takes one break in the chain to switch the tide. Any group of johns (producers & artist) , squares (public buying in) , or even pimps(Record execs) can turn the direction. Tidal wave are started by a lil ebb and flow of water that starts in the far east that picks up steam as it goes

[BALKI]

I think a change is comming soon.
People are getting tired of hearing the same songs, just new beat and new rapper.
I think they want something different.
Also, Theres too much going on in the world right now, for people to not want something with more depth, I think everyone in here can attest to turning to music when shits bad. A lot of shits bad right now, and D4L isn't going to inspire anyone, or give them that intangible urge to move foward, like good music does.
It's a matter of time really, bubble gum rap won't survive.
People have been saying hiphop is a fad for a long time now.
It hasn't died, (infact its the highest selling form of music in the history of mankind)
Because it's real, people FEEL it. Nobody FEELS the shit thats being played on the radio today.

Keep in mind also, That a lot of the kids who buy hiphop records today, are like 15 year old girls. Who not only have never heard good/real hiphop, but probably couldnt REALLY relate to it. Eventually, they'll grow up and their love for D4L, will die and be passed off as a teenage fad.

All speculation of course, but it's the way I see it.

Couldn't of said it any better you took the words right out my mouth. "Positive" Artists will come soon best believe dat.

[tone_aot]

I can't wait till hip hop returns. These beats are getting insanely simple. I don't know how some producers made it. Rap is getting way to explicit now. Things are being said that shouldn't even be thought of. And the fact about it, alot of it ain't real. Just a plot to boost record sales. What's messed up is that the younger generation is hearing this crap and record companies are developing their minds to think this is hip hop. Some hear run dmc and think it's wack. The thing that tripped me out is i was listening to the radio and they asked a caller a trivia question referring to run dmc(can't remember what it was). All i remember is that it was ridiculously easy and she got it wrong. So when they told her the answer, she said "oh" like she really didn't know. They asked her if she knew who run dmc was and she said "no"!! I flew off the meters and almost ran off the road. The rap game is messed up people.

[X man Da Legend]

I hate it when people bitch about whats on the radio now. If u dont like it then dont listen to it. Music changes just like people do if u cannot accept change then u go ahead and sit in ur old ways but I personally like evolution. Hip hop is still street music u act as if people in the street dont like to dance or wild out in the club or something. these styles dont just become popular theres so much shit that gets played on the radio that doesnt catch on. Just because it gets radio play doesnt mean shit kuz someone still has to like it and obviously these people are gettin their money because people like it. Times change, people change, and the music will always change with it

[bigwillz24]

Sounds like they have sucked you in...

[tone_aot]

Totally agree wit bigwillz. Music might be changing, but just like alot of other things in the world, the quality is getting worse and worse.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by X man Da Legend

I hate it when people bitch about whats on the radio now. If u dont like it then dont listen to it. Music changes just like people do if u cannot accept change then u go ahead and sit in ur old ways but I personally like evolution. Hip hop is still street music u act as if people in the street dont like to dance or wild out in the club or something. these styles dont just become popular theres so much shit that gets played on the radio that doesnt catch on. Just because it gets radio play doesnt mean shit kuz someone still has to like it and obviously these people are gettin their money because people like it. Times change, people change, and the music will always change with it

You have no idea how the industry works, especially considering what gets played on the radio.

You've been fooled by the corporate monster.

If you'd like to enlighten yourself, do a google search on "payola" or "pay for play" and you can learn about how the only people getting air play are the one who's labels are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars to radio stations accross the US, based on the amount of spins it will get.

Real Hip-Hop is street music, not this fake bubble-gum trash on corporate radio.

[X man Da Legend]

I work in radio ur not gonna school me on payola i know it happens. but that doesnt control peoples money or the fact that they would lose millions in ad revenue by losing listeners regardless of how much someone is paying them to play their music. if the listeners stop coming the ad revenue will stop comin and thats a big financial loss for radio. dont talk to me as if im an idiot u dont know me or what i do or dont know. u would be surprised. get out of the fuckin house go to the club or a house party or anything and see what is bein played there. its dance music thats 90% of whats on the radio is and its always been that way its nothing new. I love old school as much as anyone else here but my point is that things change and u have to learn to embrace the change. Im not saying that the music on the radio is the greatest kuz theres a lot of stuff on the radio that i like and a lot i dont same w/ underground a lot i like and a lot i dont but what im sayin is stop tryin to bring back the past. whats done is done lets move on to something better let the music evolve into something entertaining. I for one enjoy BEP, Nelly, Chingy, and PCD. Beep is one of my favorite songs right now. At the same time Fishscale is my favorite album right now. Im into a bit of everything so what is so corrputed about that? put out good music and people will like it and radio plays good music.

[teddyastuffed]

i must admit, ive been into rap and hip hop for about 4 years, and i got hooked into the 94-95 days (probably the prime of hip hop in a lot of peoples opinion w/ at least the new york scene escalating like mad with albums such as illmatic, ready to die, and enter the 36 chambers). personally i dont really like the sound thats going on in 'mainstream' music (mainly referring to the 'crunk' south sound).. but i gotta say, all power to them. this IS a capitalist nation and the recording agencies and labels are simply doing their job. i along with probably about 90% of the people on this board make music because we love music and we want to express what we have 'on wax', but for labels, its business. music is business for some people and they could care less if the music sounded like shit dropping in toilets; if it sells, they'll promote it.

and this isnt anything new at all... back in the 1930's with our beloved 'true/real' musical jazz, a lot of that was promoted and influenced by labels (obviously not nearly as supressing as today's music, but im just showing how it was still business). the first jazz recording by 'the original dixieland jazz band' has the instrumentalists making sounds of horses and other animals w/ their trumpets and so forth. this was a direct influence on what the 'labels' wanted them to do so people would listen to the song and think its funny so they'd by the record. this was done on the VERY FIRST JAZZ RECORDING EVER. so the state that we're in now is nothing shocking. teenagers happen to like music with weak, over-produced, lyrically-trite songs. as long as those teenagers keep giving money to the labels, they'll keep feeding the monster.

personally, i think its kinda REALLY pessimistic to think that hip hop wont ever rise up again. i mean theres even artists out right now that have been around for years that r starting to shine through (ie: common, a lot of the east bay artists, etc.). it may be at a weak point in the hip hop state in general, esspecially at the commercial aspect, but for anyone that is into underground music, there r a lot of artists and producers out there (MF Doom, Vast Aire, Vordul Mega, El-P, and many more) that are still stickin around and putting out good stuff.

i actually had a conversation like this with a friend of mine about if he thinks the state of music will ever come up with something new on a commercial aspect. essentially, we were talkin about if something analogous to what jazz was to the classical world or what rock and roll was to the jazz world would ever come around. both believed that it would, but we both thought that a regression in music (going back to a 90s,80s,all the way down to the 40s-50s) would be necessary before something truely new, innovative, and commercial would ever come about. we went a lot deeper into it and imma end up writing a book before i can finish saying all of it, but yeah that might be something that the hip hop world will go through. who knows -_-

[oxygen9.99]

Let me first say that good music is good music if you put your blood sweat and tears in to some thing at the end of the day it don’t matter what any one thinks about your shit its yours I don’t like to knock any ones hustle! but I have to say that sorry to say X MAN DA LEGEND “radio plays good music” is just not true this might be easier to explain in the form of when real M.C.s or rappers battle. Excluding all that east/west cost shit, I am talking about skills real talent to rock the mic now not to long ago there was a conflict between KRS-one and Nelly. KRS-one was filling disrespected by not just NELLY but buy a whole generation of fans that have come up over the past 5-6 years who have been acclimated by commercial hip hop TV/radio there is a hole generation of people who don’t even care its like who’s DOUG E FRESH /CHUCK D /BIG DADDY KANE /GRANDMASTER CAZ. And some how they are not even relevant some of these guys careers are 15 years old and you look down on that all hip hop/rap artist should aspire to be in the game that long.

NELLY had a single on the training day sound track and he lashed out against fellow M.C.s who was not giving him respect that the music he was making was not real hip-hop. Ironically KRS-one had a song on his old LP “Im still number one” which he served MELLY weather NELLYS comments wear directed at KRS-ONE or not it started a battle most people would say KRS-ONE would win the battle after all he is a hip hop icon right? However, around the country they would just play NELLY records and his diss. And never played KRS-one’s record at all.

And then you have DJ’s on the air who don’t even have the history to even put it in the proper context one opinion might be that comical radio creates a lopsided battle field. Now days you have out side entities that will play NELLY all day long and never play KRS-one you have a fan base and a generation of people who are being fed and being thought hip-hop buy corporations who have a very different agenda. Now if you are talking about one man like KRS-one who is a hip hop icon going head to head with a corporation like universal who has a lot at steak who do you think is going to win well when NELLYVILLE LP dropped it sold over 4 million copies in 2002. and KRS-one wasn’t even able to sell 30 thousand units even after dissing NELLY so ask your self do corporate interest have any thing to do with what sells and what dos not sell? No matter the quality of the lyrics/music the way I see it is both NELLY and KRS-ONE are right it cannot just be all NELLY but what happened was it turned out to be all NELLY.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by X man Da Legend

I work in radio ur not gonna school me on payola i know it happens. but that doesnt control peoples money or the fact that they would lose millions in ad revenue by losing listeners regardless of how much someone is paying them to play their music. if the listeners stop coming the ad revenue will stop comin and thats a big financial loss for radio. dont talk to me as if im an idiot u dont know me or what i do or dont know. u would be surprised. get out of the fuckin house go to the club or a house party or anything and see what is bein played there. its dance music thats 90% of whats on the radio is and its always been that way its nothing new. I love old school as much as anyone else here but my point is that things change and u have to learn to embrace the change. Im not saying that the music on the radio is the greatest kuz theres a lot of stuff on the radio that i like and a lot i dont same w/ underground a lot i like and a lot i dont but what im sayin is stop tryin to bring back the past. whats done is done lets move on to something better let the music evolve into something entertaining. I for one enjoy BEP, Nelly, Chingy, and PCD. Beep is one of my favorite songs right now. At the same time Fishscale is my favorite album right now. Im into a bit of everything so what is so corrputed about that? put out good music and people will like it and radio plays good music.

Yup, you're brainwashed.

Good music has nothing to do with the style or sound... It has everything to do with content, and talent. BEP, Nelly, Chingy? Wow... that's some of the WORST music out right now.

Maybe where you live, people really like that stuff. Where I come from (Detroit), people like REAL music. The stuff that gets played around here at parties and what not, is stuff people can feel. Something that people can relate to. No one relates to "laffy taffy" or "My Humps"... That's some of the most ignorant music ever made. Mindless music, which makes society more and more ignorant the more they listen to it.

You know why you like Fishcale? Because there's only really one commercial single on it... The track with Ne-Yo. Everything else is typical Ghostface, and 90% will never see commercial airplay on a top 40 station. Dedicated Hip-Hop stations will play some of it, sure... But he stayed true to himself, for the most part. That's rare, these days.

[BALKI]

BEP, Nelly, Chingy

Hahahhah!!! what a fuckin joke. Southern rap has become total garbage to me & I lived in Texas all my life. All it's become is club type track'z rappin about Materialistic type b.s. You know If Scarface is puttin club tracks on his c.d. something is going wrong with southern rap shit. Everything sounds tha same here it's time for some originality & positive lyrics to hit the streets down here. Lil Jon & Fuckin D4l & tha rest of tha lame ass rap artist's only get paid by young white teenage teenie boppers it's time they hear some real lyrics & not any of this loud mouth ignorant/ degrading women screaming about how much blunts they've smoked or how bad they degrade women and their materialistic type garbage they spit. Shit is getting sickning in a bad way.

[RAM BEATZ]

What About Celo Green. That Boy Be Droppin It For Real Hip-hop

[Mo-Kay]

fuck hip hop

untill this mediocre bullshit stops