opposite latency

[cpc]

i got my first midi controller in the mail today, and everything works fine...except when i setup a drum loop in fruity loops, and record along to it with a synth, it will sound in time while i record it, but then upon playback the midi synth actually seems to come in just slightly earlier than it should, making the whole thing sound off. i was worried i would have to worry about latency , but i seem to have the opposite problem of the midi playing too soon. is this common and/or fixable?

[ssscientist]

There's a handy feature in all capabable midi recording software called 'quantize' or 'time correct'.

I'm not sure what FL calls this --- probably quantize --- but that's your ticket to stuff playing right on the beat.

I kinda suspect it's operator error that's to blame for what you're experiencing - it's tough to get notes spot on, and if you've got the quantize already on and you miss by enough it can pull the notes forward - or early - just as easily as it can pull them backward or late.

[cpc]

i'm positive its not my playing, ive tried it many times with many different songs and the timing is always slightly off and early with every note played. i will look into this quantize thing you speak of though thanks for the reply

[cpc]

well i found the quantize thing, it's not a triggable option... its something i click that "quantizes" notes that are already recorded.... this may help, but i wish i could stop this problem from occuring in the first place so i dont have to "quantize" after every time i record something, especially when i'm just goofing around with ideas that would become tedius. any other ideas?

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by riznich

i wish i could stop this problem from occuring in the first place so i dont have to "quantize" after every time i record something, especially when i'm just goofing around with ideas that would become tedius. any other ideas?

Nope.

Just avoid making timing mistakes, and that takes practice.





.

[cpc]

Originally Posted by riznich

i'm positive its not my playing

i've recorded myself playing keyboard before, i'm not new to playing keyboard, i've triple checked the recordings, every single note comes in early, it's not even close, i'm positive it's not my playing.

i'm thinking its something within the software, as i experience no latency at all when i'm actually playing. there is no delay from the moment i push a key to the time i hear the note, it's almost as if the software picks up the midi date before i even push a key, which is impossible.

[cpc]

i was looking through my midi settings, and under midi output i'm not sure what to do, it lists "microsoft midi mapper, my keyboard, and wavetable synth" with an option "send master sync" to each of the devices. should i enable this to any of the devices? and which one should i use as my output? does it matter?

[cpc]

anyone know why my synths are coming in early? its driving me bananas

[MadTiger3000]

Originally Posted by riznich

anyone know why my synths are coming in early? its driving me bananas

It's more logical to think that something is triggering late.

[travelin travis]

maybe fl is set to automatically quantize notes? might wanna check and turn it off. are you running fl alone or as a plugin in something else?

[altitude909]

If your coming in early, its usually a driver/ directmusic issue. Consult manufactures website, they usually have a fix

[cpc]

i'm using FL studio 6, alone for now. i dont think quantize can be automatically turned on so i dont think thats the problem. i'm using a keystation 49e keyboard, it is usb plug n play.

as i record the synths, there is no delay or latency or anything... it's upon playback that they come in early...this is especially annoying when adding bass or drums.


i dont know what drivers to check, since i never had to install any?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by altitude909

If your coming in early, its usually a driver/ directmusic issue. Consult manufactures website, they usually have a fix

I had this problem in Cubase when using a usb midi controller. Definately something to look at.

[cpc]

thanks for the replies everyone... personally i dont think it can be the keyboard itself..because wouldnt that mean that the midi data would have to be picked up before i even push a key? that would be impossible. i think its something either in the software or settings on the computer.. but either way, i contacted m-audio support.

ps-travis, did you ever fix it when you had this problem?

[AlChuck]

Now, I might be talking out of my hat here, but it seems to me that I remember hearing this discussed before like this:

The audio data playing back that you are playing along with is delayed by some amount, whcih is the latency of the card. So the recording software typically compensates for this by offsetting the MIDI data it records along with audio tracks by the amount of the latency setting. The MIDI data would be late by definition in relation to the actual time within the data stream, so this compensation would offset it back relative to when it was really recorded.

So it stands to reason that if this compensation were being applied wrongly -- too much compensation -- on playback the MIDI parts would be triggered ahead of the the audio.

Here's some interesting articles I found that make give you some food for thought. They're a bit old but this stuff all still works like it did back then:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar0...s/miditime.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar0...pcmusician.asp

This from Cakewalk's site; there's probably something similar in Cubase:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Docs/AudioMIDISync.asp

Finally, the info in this link might have the secret you need:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...2cc7f318720efd

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by riznich

thanks for the replies everyone... personally i dont think it can be the keyboard itself..because wouldnt that mean that the midi data would have to be picked up before i even push a key? that would be impossible. i think its something either in the software or settings on the computer.. but either way, i contacted m-audio support.

ps-travis, did you ever fix it when you had this problem?

Yes I did. Well I found a work around anyway. In Cubase, before I record any midi data produced by my usb keyboard, I go to "Device Setup", "Direct Music", and check then uncheck "Use System Time Stamp". I don't know why it works but it does. Maybe you can figure out something similar in FL.

My problem was during playback. When I would playback something recorded with my usb keyboard, the midi notes played back out of synch. I new damn well that I played the part right but at playback everything was all out of whack. Sound familiar?

I started trying to figure out what was going on, asked a few people on various forums, and someone mentioned a problem with usb keyboard drivers and Direct Music. I found a couple of articles at SoundonSound and other places that recommended unchecking remove system timestamp. It seemed to work sometimes but other times it did'nt. I finally figured out that checking and then unchecking "Use System Time Stamp" at the beginning of a Cubase session cured my problem. From what I gathered, this is only a problem with usb midi controller drivers.

[cpc]

"My problem was during playback. When I would playback something recorded with my usb keyboard, the midi notes played back out of synch. I new damn well that I played the part right but at playback everything was all out of whack. Sound familiar?"

sounds quite familiar. although, my usb controller is plug and play.. i never had to install any drivers. i'll look into the things you mentioned though, thanks everyone for taking the time to reply and help me out.

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by riznich

thanks for taking the time to reply and help me out.

Don't the rest of us get thanks? Even the mighty AlChuck weighed in on this one. Not to mention altitude909 and MadTiger3000.

When it comes time to thank all the little people who helped, how quickly we forget.

[cpc]

Originally Posted by riznich

thanks for the replies everyone...

you know i appreciate all the little people

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by riznich

you know i appreciate all the little people

Much better.

Now I can go to sleep a happy man.


.

[cpc]

well i'll be damned, i went to the audio output settings... and i was using the directsound version of my mobilepre usb... so i switched it over to the ASIO ... and now my sync problems seem to all be fixed. however, now i get annoying pops and clicks during playback and recording.. grrrr

[ssscientist]

Increase your "audio buffer" size until those annoying clicks and pops go away. It'll be a balancing act between latency and clicks and pops, but with ASIO on your side now it shouldn't be too hard to find a happy medium.

[recombinant]

Originally Posted by ssscientist

Now I can go to sleep a happy man.

you sleep????

[cpc]

Originally Posted by ssscientist

Increase your "audio buffer" size until those annoying clicks and pops go away. It'll be a balancing act between latency and clicks and pops, but with ASIO on your side now it shouldn't be too hard to find a happy medium.

when i'm in ASIO it doesnt matter what the buffer is, i always have the pops and clicks. even if i set it to its highest setting. when in direct sound version i can only decrease the buffer to 512 samples (11ms) without the pops or clicks. this is only a problem when playing softsynths.... when recording audio i can have the latency as low as 128 (2ms) without a single pop or click.

for right now i guess i can live with the pops and clicks while playing as long as the sync is good, and then just switch out of asio for playback.

any further suggestions or ideas?

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by riznich

any further suggestions or ideas?

Nope. Sorry.