The DIY Fretless Guitar!

[hrwmusic]

For all do it yourself enthusiasts, here is my "out of nowhere" fretless guitar project! Note: I'm doing this simply to inspire others, and give people here an inside on how things worked out with this guide.
Hopefully im doin' someone alittle good! ...Oh and check out the site i found first to better understand what im working with here.

Backround Info
After much bordom I decided i needed some sort of project to help pass my time. And after a sort discusion with a friend on fretless guitars I googled for a step by step procedure to remove frets
(yes, i know i am following directions, but its still a big project for most, can't that be agreed on?) .
I found: http://www.unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=main
which is a awesome reasource for all things unfretted. I then spontaneously took out my old, cheep, starter electric Ibanez:

My Ibanez Before
a close up on the frets

The Steps
I first did a few stupid things like held a neadle with a hotpad to a lighter and then placed it on a fret (i dont have a soldering iron) to loosen the glue. But i quickly realized i was an idiot and tried a knife. Turns out that my frets werent glued in and they came out pretty easily, untill i cut my hand, and (midway) decided to use a bottle opener for saftey (pointless pictures below)

the knife and cut
The bottle opener (you can see that its edge isn't too thin, so you shouldn't worry too much about thickness when removing the frets)

Here are pictures after i removed all of the frets:

no frets one

no frets two

no frets three


Where I Am Now
Here is a current cross road for me & anyone filling the frets [remember, i am not yet finished]. On the main page for the project im doing
(http://www.unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=unfretting) they say epoxy should be used for filling frets, and then sanding and yeah...
But, in the hint section they recomend to use a wax crayon and then to polish the fret board.
WHAT!!! that really doesnt make since. But anyways, im going with the epoxy rout, and for the first time, not being lazy...
(hopefully this way will work best).

Tomorrow im going to go a local hardware store for:
~ 15-30 min epoxy
~ some sort of small mixing containers (i'll probly use somthing small from home though)
~ toothpicks (hmm)
~ Double sided tape (duct), ive got the scrap flat pice of wood
and then "various grits of sand paper" (80, 100, 150, 180, 220, 300)
~ and masking tape to cover the guitar.

wish me luck and I'll keep you all posted on my progress, it says it will take around 2 days for the epoxy to fully dry (but i'll talk to the guy/girl at the store and see what they think, and maybe ill do alittle reasearche too) but i'll post the work ill do periodically over the next 3-4 days.
-Harry

[hrwmusic]

So ive got the epoxy and i put it in the empty slots...
pictures:

Close up 1

Close up2

Close up 3

(it looks kinda blue 'cause of the flash, but it should dry a grayish black)

It was alittle messy, the stuff i used, "PC 7 Epoxy Paster," was really hard to work with.

---so does anyone have any sanding tips, like i said, im pretty new at everything. Is there any spacific that i should focus on?

I'll have to wait 'till tomorrow so the epoxy can dry. But any suggestions would help. Same with just a commment on what you think.

[greenie]

im wondering why they suggest epoxy for the fill instead of wood putty. would seem the expoxy being so slick wouldnt feel the same as the wood on the neck when you play.

[edgarallanpoe]

The fretless guitar has been tried many times by many companies. Unfortunately it just doesn't work very well. It is almost impossible to play in tune and intonation gets thrown out the window. Think about how precise you have to be to finger complicated chords on a fretless guitar...it would seem impossible to me. Good luck with your project. I believe it was Andy Summers from the Police who tried this several years ago and he gave up for the same reasons I just cited.

[greenie]

perhaps the intent is to solo, not play chords.
kinda like violin, etc.

[gvarko]

Originally Posted by greenie

im wondering why they suggest epoxy for the fill instead of wood putty. would seem the expoxy being so slick wouldnt feel the same as the wood on the neck when you play.

I would go the wood filler route..

[hrwmusic]

Originally Posted by greenie

im wondering why they suggest epoxy for the fill instead of wood putty. would seem the expoxy being so slick wouldnt feel the same as the wood on the neck when you play.

i see you point, but epoxy could pose as a potential advantage by helping to indicate where you are on the fretboard (even though i remember reading that to play the note accurately (not sharp or flat), you need to have your finger just ahead of the fret?). Im crossing my fingers with this, but regardless i wont really have anything to regret. Im not using this guitar much at all anymore, so i might as well make use of it! Today i think i will sand it down a bit, do you think the epoxy has dried (cured), by now?

[EddieRay]

Originally Posted by greenie

perhaps the intent is to solo, not play chords.
kinda like violin, etc.

I followed the link to some short example mp3's of fretless guitar. I liked what I heard. Anyway, it sounded to me like the solos were indeed played fretless, while accompanying guitar was fretted. I could be wrong though.

[hrwmusic]

Originally Posted by EddieRay

I followed the link to some short example mp3's of fretless guitar. I liked what I heard. Anyway, it sounded to me like the solos were indeed played fretless, while accompanying guitar was fretted. I could be wrong though.

yeah thats what i thought too, but i intend to use maybe some basic chords, but nothing too full like g. or any bar chords.

[greenie]

did you do any sanding yet?

[punkin]

Originally Posted by EddieRay

I followed the link to some short example mp3's of fretless guitar. I liked what I heard. Anyway, it sounded to me like the solos were indeed played fretless, while accompanying guitar was fretted. I could be wrong though.

Can't remember which G3 it was but I've heard Vai do it quite nicely...but then again, that goes without saying right?

[akaMrC]

I believe there is an article on fretless guitars in either this months Guitar Player or last months. Also a few weeks or so ago I saw some guitar championship (possibly GP?)held in Buffalo on my local PBS channel and some guy was playing a fretless guitar. Great player, I think he might have won.

[Doug H]

Well, I'm not doing this to my strat, but I'm gonna have to check this out somehow.

[GreenDank]

Cool... I thought there were only fretless basses.

[warrengtype]

Bumblefoot plays the above fretless quite a bit on his albums and out live. Sounds freaking awesome.

This guy James Went plays one on this tune. Also sounds badassed.

I've never played one myself, but I so want to.

[hrwmusic]

I've done it!

okay, of course the epoxy has dried. no it didnt take me this long (sorry, ive been lazy, and been having fun playing it.)
But heres what i did.....
after the epoxy dried (just took about a day, rather than a week as it said<i think>). I basically used three grains of sandpaper. I actually got it at cvs in a pack (i went: 60, 100, 150 and thats all i needed.) I was surprised on how well it came out with just those three, rather than the 6 or so that i was planning on.
i just went with the grain and was careful to do it evenly (and also get the sides of the fretboard). Heres a pic of it upclose when i finished:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture001.jpg
It looks nice and natural. You can see the frets but thats actually an
advantage because to play the notes in the right pitch you need to press where the lines used to be. Im actually likeing the freedom and theres a werid effect i get from simple 2/3 note chords, like powerchords and such.

As you could have guessed the action was way way way too high. so to resolve this i lowered the bridge dramatically, and actually sanded the nut down some too. And heres a pic of that:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture003.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture001.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture006.jpg
Nothing too dramatic, hah, and also: im sure i'll like playing it more when i get new strings (im supposed to get flatwound ones) that arent used acoustic ones.

heres 3 last pictures of it:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture008.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture010.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Picture011.jpg

id recomend doing this, its wery werid, but wow those old strings are crappy, i mean really really bad, so when i get more ill let everyone know. Also, if anyone would like a sound clip, just ask.
to summarize it, its a cool, simple project that is pretty fun and wont ruin your guitar. i did it to my old starter that wasn't getting played...at all. so why waste that old guitar thats sitting in your room/garage/attic/ect, im gonna atleast be picking it up more out of curriosity, oh and it can do some nice bass frequencies so if i ever was to need a bass part, id probly be set!



(note:when sanding w/ epoxy, use one of those face masks...i just saw it on the epoxy container and figured it would be a good idea to be safe about it.)

-harry

[hrwmusic]

Originally Posted by warrengtype

Bumblefoot plays the above fretless quite a bit on his albums and out live. Sounds freaking awesome.

This guy James Went plays one on this tune. Also sounds badassed.

I've never played one myself, but I so want to.

yeah, i like the james went song. It sounds reall natural, and thats how it plays, its really cool + different.

oh and honestly, if your paying attention, it really isnt too hard to play in tune.

[mshilarious]

You might want to throw a thin coat of an oil finish on that fingerboard.

[pikingrin]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

You might want to throw a thin coat of an oil finish on that fingerboard.

Let me follow that up with another little question or 2...

The story behind it...
I have an older strat that I tried to load up with a set of really heavy strings about a year and a half ago. When I tuned it up a part of the nut that holds the low E snapped off (I think it was around a .052 gauge - D'Addario Jazz light set). Since then I have taken the entire guitar apart out of spite and frustration, which has actually turned out pretty well so far. I stripped off all the paint, and stained it a couple of different shades of darker brown. It looks really sweet, I wish I had something better than a camera phone...

Anyway, keeping on track here...
The neck is one of the solid maple, with a coat of clear laquer on it. It seems to me that I could try this little project out and just replace the nut at the same time, since it has to be removed anyway. There are a couple of questions lingering around regarding the finish on the fretboard... Is it going to make the frets harder to remove being that the neck has a layer of laquer on it? And what about the sanding? Is there any way to give it that old shine once it has been sanded on for a while? What would be the best way to go about this project under these circumstances?

I'm going to go ahead and get started while I have a couple of days off, but any input would help along the way.

[pikingrin]

Okay, I have started taking the frets out and I have a word of advice... Be effing careful! I have removed three of the frets, and my right hand looks like I got in a fist fight with a rabbid cat... 3 frets, about 12 cuts across my fingers...

At least I will be able to tell where the frets should be when the epoxy sets over that nice red tinted maple...

[hrwmusic]

Originally Posted by pikingrin

Okay, I have started taking the frets out and I have a word of advice... Be effing careful! I have removed three of the frets, and my right hand looks like I got in a fist fight with a rabbid cat... 3 frets, about 12 cuts across my fingers...

At least I will be able to tell where the frets should be when the epoxy sets over that nice red tinted maple...

well if you saw my first post, you could see my hand being cut too. So yeah...As reccomended above, you could do an oil finish. and i just might end up lacquering it up, though i am terrible with laucquer (spl?), and havent used it since middle school shop class.
Im glad that this has atleast given you somthing to do.
when im i going to get those new strings.
also....if you dont have any finish on your fretboard then you'll especially need flat wound strings like on a bass. or you'll chew threw your fretboard!

[andyhix]

Originally Posted by hrwmusic

Also, if anyone would like a sound clip, just ask.

Yes, please.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by hrwmusic

well if you saw my first post, you could see my hand being cut too. So yeah...As reccomended above, you could do an oil finish. and i just might end up lacquering it up, though i am terrible with laucquer (spl?), and havent used it since middle school shop class.
Im glad that this has atleast given you somthing to do.
when im i going to get those new strings.
also....if you dont have any finish on your fretboard then you'll especially need flat wound strings like on a bass. or you'll chew threw your fretboard!

I believe maple has to have a lacquer finish, I forget why, I don't have any instruments with maple, and Light is probably avoiding this thread like the plague

It's really much easier to remove frets with this tool:

http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel...talog/sku.html

[pikingrin]

That is a fancy tool, but why spend 28 bucks plus shipping for a glorified pair of pliers that I would only use once? Maybe I am just too cheap or frugal, I dunno. Just doesn't seem practical in a way. Besides, it's only minor flesh wounds... they'll heal eventually.

As far as maple goes, aren't some necks left 'unfinished', with just a coat of tung oil or something? I am going to look into that, the all-powerful google should lead to some sort of insight.

According to the folks at Warmoth:
Hard Maple (Acer saccharum):
This is the traditional Fender neck wood. Dense, hard and strong, offering great sustain and stability. The tone is bright. Maple must be finished to protect from warping.

[hrwmusic]

well hold on, and i'll record today...


the only issue is that my neighbors are having an addition added to their house so its pretty loud over here.....sigh....