Main mix volume in Sonar 4

[coolsoundman]

When I mix in Sonar 4, I'll use the template of at least 8 tracks, which comes with the 4 auxillary channels. Out of those aux channels, there is a master which is routed to the main channels of my sound card. So when I mix, what channel am I supposed to look out for, the master channel in the submix or the main channel that tells me the output to my sound card? I wish I could take a snapshot pic of what I'm trying to describe. Any idea on what to keep an eye on?

[Qwerty]

I use a template with one of those aux busses renamed to MASTER and pointing directly to a set of sound card outputs.

Any other buss I then route to the MASTER.

I try not to clip any gain stage.

Using this approach gives me one set of peak meters to care about -- MASTER. If this clips, the exported track will clip, if it doesn't, it won't... If I use multiple outputs directly to the sound cards outputs, I lose this visibility.

Ciao,

Q.

[Synkrotron]

OK... bare with me here...

You could just route each or your 8 audio tracks straight to the main bus. Or you could use your aux busses to groups for sub mix or effects purposes... the opportunities are endless...


Is there a particular reason that you are using 4 aux busses? Do you really need them?

So when I mix, what channel am I supposed to look out for, the master channel in the submix or the main channel that tells me the output to my sound card?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "main channel"...

If you are using the aux busses for a submix (groups) then you can disable the output to your master channel from each audio track because you are routing them to either one of the aux busses. The aux busses are then routed to the master channel. Actually, I'd need to check on this statement cos I haven't done it myself before and it sounds a bit daft turning off the output to the master bus.

Anyway, personally, I'm not sure why you need to do this. You are only using 8 audio tracks (presumably stereo which give you a total of 16?) so it's not that complicated. I would only bother with submixes if I was considering grouping say vocals and backing vocals on one group, guitars on another, drums (probably mic'd with 5 mic's) on another and keyboards on yet another. But you can also manage without grouping. All grouping does, as far as I can tell, is give you the option of setting relative levels of items in each group and then mixing all the groups together for the main mix. I'm in a four piece band with vocals, drums, guitar and key and as yet I haven't ventured into using groups.

OR

You could use the aux busses for various effects and you would use the aux send pots on each audio track to set the level for each effect.



Actually, I should perhaps duck out of here now cos I've just realised that there is still much for me to learn... it's quite a minefield ain't it? getting around all the bits and pieces of a mixer. I'm at work at the mo and I feel I can answer this kind of stuff much easier when I'm in front of my Sonar console.

As soon as I know more I will be back... ... ...

[Porter]

What Q said,

Basically, you can have one buss called Main or Master (it doesn't really matter), but Master makes you sound more like a 'pro'. That is routed to the outs on your sound card (which I'm looking at Sonar 3 are also visible in console view).

You can work either way which Synkrotron mentioned, ie, routing all the individual tracks to the Master, or route a number of tracks to one buss and route that bus to the master, which give you 'sub groups' (ie if you have 5 tracks for your drums (Kick, snare, hi-hat, stereo overhead), you could set each level independently and route them to a buss so you can adjust the overall level of the drums in a mix with one fader.

The other thing which Busses are used for are effects sends, but I'll leave you with the above summary at this stage :-)

Daniel

[coolsoundman]

Some of the buses I'm using for efx and they are being sent to the master channel. Then from the master channel it goes to the output of my soundcard, in which I'm using two output's, one for my monitors and the other for my playback headphones. here's a diagrahm:
main outputs <- master <- sub1<-efx
My main outputs don't really peak, but the master fader does peak a little so I would have to turn the master down and then I would raise the main outputs up to get my meter readings. Does this make any sense or is it still confusing?

[Synkrotron]

Originally Posted by coolsoundman

My main outputs don't really peak, but the master fader does peak a little so I would have to turn the master down and then I would raise the main outputs up to get my meter readings. Does this make any sense or is it still confusing?

Yep... makes sense that. Just comfirm... by "main outputs" to you mean the meters on the audio track/channel? If so then this is normal because all the sounds that are being sent to the master bus add together and will therefore peak the master level even though each individual track/channel is in the green.

Take the master bus fader down a bit and then set your channel to get the desired mix and then bring back up the master fader so that it's hitting somewhere around -6 to -3 dB.


andy

[coolsoundman]

Main outputs to the soundcard(monitors). I'll set them to 0 but its the master fader that I have to turn down to keep from peaking. But it's not distorting that I hear, but just loud.

[Synkrotron]

Originally Posted by coolsoundman

Main outputs to the soundcard(monitors). I'll set them to 0 but its the master fader that I have to turn down to keep from peaking. But it's not distorting that I hear, but just loud.

Oh... opposite way round to what I said... I'm confused then

[coolsoundman]

Here's another confused question.
So should the efx and subs have their own master channel and from the master channel be routed to the outputs of the soundcard? I guess the reason that I say soundcard outputs as being the main is that it's the way the program names it. Since I'm using the delta 66 card, the master channel of the subgroups is sent to that channel.

[coolsoundman]

Ok, here's a view of my console of a song that I'm doing. It's currently a 6 track song with a setting of 8 tracks.

[coolsoundman]

here's another size of the picture, that first one was too small

[Synkrotron]

glad you sussed that out...

Looking at the picture... I don't recognise what's going on to the far right of the picture... the busses that only have Mute buttons and I think I can make out the name of your sound card at the bottom of the channels.

I don't appear to have that... I need to check. I'm using Sonar 5 Studio Edition with an RME DIGI 9636 card so perhaps that's the difference. If I get change I'll have a look at my setup later tonight.

In the meantime, perhaps someone with better experience should step in.

Later

andy

[coolsoundman]

Here's another view of another song that is being played back. As you can tell, the master fader which is next to the buses is almost half way and the sliders on the output channel is almost at zero. The meter readings on the main output is set in the -42 range and I have it set for the Peak + RMS readings. Hope this helps. Anyone have any I idea on what I should I keep an eye out for in my meter's when I'm ready to do my mixdown?

[Qwerty]

I would close up the right-most third of the screen. You don't need it if everything is going through the MASTER.

Q.

[coolsoundman]

If I closed the last two sliders, then I'll not be able to get any sound. From the master slider is then sent to the sliders on the second far right.

[Qwerty]

Leave the far right slider set to zero and only just the upstream busses.

Q.

[coolsoundman]

ok, i'll give it a try.