recording jazz

[zebra]

hello board,
can somebody give me information about " the recording of jazz"
i just finnished my ingeneering course, i used to produced hiphop for a long time. but i did one jazz project and i fell in love with it.
i just dont know the techniques jet, are there books about it or website?
hope to get smome feedback,
peace peter

[TimOBrien]

Search engines are your friend:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=jaz...&cop=&ei=UTF-8

[northsiderap]

1) The sound of the instruments !!!!
2) The drums are usually room mic'd - XY overhead, bass drum & snare drum. A liittle more 'ambience.'
3) The bass player can't play on the bridge. You'll hear it. Have him play up past the neck pickup if you can.
4) Record it as clean as you can, then have fun.

[ozraves]

Well, what sort of jazz do you want to record. Do you want to do Miles Davis as in "Star People" or as in "Kind of Blue" or as in "Bitch's Brew"?

[Innovations]

very good point. Jazz is extremely broad as a genre. If I were recording a simple accoustic combo and wanted to get a 'club-like' sound I would be tempted just to use an XY stereo pair.

[emergencyexit]

Keep it clean in my opinion. Its more about how good the players are together, than how good you can make them sound.

Ben

[limester816]

What is an XY stereo pair?

[zebra]

YAHOO!!!!!! tnx

[cawhite12]

I must agree that with jazz, simple seems to get the job done. Do not try to go crazy micing everything in the world up, especially if its a small combo. For drums, I use 2 overheads and kick and snare, do direct with the bass, and mic keys or guitar amps, and you would obviously have to mic a horn if they have one.

The thing with jazz is the communication between the players, so IMO, doing a tracking session where you track everyone separate is unacceptable, except maybe in like some smooth jazz/funk/fusion stuff (like was said earlier on here, jazz is a WIDE genre).

[zebra]

i agree, it will be a 4band (drums/contrabass/sax/acc guitar/) and female singing. im lookin already for a wooden room, but if it comes to microfone setup, im stil doubting, should i closemic everything? or should i go for a ab or xy recording and closemicing for the voice.

my setup so far

so for drums d112(kick) sm57(snare bottem) nt5 couple for toms and OH
bass 421 of senheiser
guitar nt1
voice nt1 or smal bottlemic
sax ????

what do you think of this?
peace peter

[leddy]

I have just had some success changing to a new technique. Still experimenting with it, so it is a work in progress: Try putting a stereo pair (XY or ORTF works best for me) in the room. Place mics and musicians according to how you want them laid out in the stereo field. Then put one close mic on each instrument, even drums. I put a single OH over the snare (to get enough detail with brushes) pointing down towards the bass drum (you could add a mic on the bass drum if you need, but I don't). If it is electric bass, I would probably mic the cab and not go direct. Carefully pan the mono close-mics to match placement in the stereo tracks. Now you have up-front detail and the stereo room ambiance that can be dialed in the right amount for you.

[zebra]

thats really interesting, i'll keep that in my mind fo shure. what is your room like? do you like your room?

Originally Posted by leddy

I have just had some success changing to a new technique. Still experimenting with it, so it is a work in progress: Try putting a stereo pair (XY or ORTF works best for me) in the room. Place mics and musicians according to how you want them laid out in the stereo field. Then put one close mic on each instrument, even drums. I put a single OH over the snare (to get enough detail with brushes) pointing down towards the bass drum (you could add a mic on the bass drum if you need, but I don't). If it is electric bass, I would probably mic the cab and not go direct. Carefully pan the mono close-mics to match placement in the stereo tracks. Now you have up-front detail and the stereo room ambiance that can be dialed in the right amount for you.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by zebra

thats really interesting, i'll keep that in my mind fo shure. what is your room like? do you like your room?

I record live gigs, so I have to do the best I can with the room I'm in. I have one room at home treated well for mixing in - but tracking is done on location.

[simpleybass]

Isn't this a redundant post? There's another one in "recording techniques".

[cawhite12]

zebra, I probably wouldn't worry about tom mics, well placed overheads will get those. I would also do the snare mic up top, at least that's what I do.

[ozraves]

Here's what I'd do with my mics:

Drums -- I'd keep it simple with one overhead, preferably a Dragonfly, pointing at the snare. I'd close mic the snare with an SM57. I'd put an ATM25 in front of the kit.

Sax -- AEA R84 or R92.

Contrabass -- ATM25.

Acoustic guitar -- I'd probably go with a small cardioid condenser on the neck side of the guitar.

Vocalist -- I'd go with the backside of the AEA R92.

The thing to remember is not to get caught up in four inch syndrome where you stick all the mics four inches from the source. It'll make your recording sound small. Use your ears to determine mic placements. I'd be careful about positioning the figure 8 mics so that the other sources fit within the nulls.

[bigtoe]

the bass is, for me, the most challenging part of recording a jazz combo. the couple i've done the drums way overpower at times...the bleed is amazing.

you could blame it on the drummer but you know...

i agree on eth minimal micing though - one mic can really sound amazing.

have fun! love the jazz.

Mike

[philboyd studge]

Keeping it clean and balanced is most important, the music will take care of itself.

I've just been listening to a series of recording a late friend of mine made of Howard Roberts and his Magic Band at Dante's in L. A. in 1966 back when he was a photographer for Capitol records and a big jazz fan. All he had was a home recorder (Ampex 2 track I think) and a couple of mics for a 5 piece group (drums, bass, guitar, hammond B-3, sax) yet the sound and balance was excellent. He said he just moved the mics around till he got the sound he wanted. Re released on a little label called VSP.

[zebra]

im gettin a lot with your contribution guys, i got an idea how to do it, but with this info i'm more like to understand how other ingeneers do it. thank you
peace peter

[leddy]

Originally Posted by bigtoe

the bass is, for me, the most challenging part of recording a jazz combo. the couple i've done the drums way overpower at times...the bleed is amazing.

you could blame it on the drummer but you know...

That is a fact. Getting the ride cymbal out of the bass mic is a challenge. Choice of ride cymbal & sticks makes a big difference. The best mic I've used so far for getting a good bass sound with enough rejection is the Beyer M88. The bass and ride cymbal have to sit well together or the whole mix will be a struggle, IMO.

[Han]

Originally Posted by leddy

That is a fact. Getting the ride cymbal out of the bass mic is a challenge. Choice of ride cymbal & sticks makes a big difference. The best mic I've used so far for getting a good bass sound with enough rejection is the Beyer M88. The bass and ride cymbal have to sit well together or the whole mix will be a struggle, IMO.

Leddy, as you know I've done some experimenting with upright: http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...77#post1823977

You gave me kudos, thanks for that. I've been using the SP B1 in the upright's bridge and that does work quite well.

In recording jazz the main problem is the upright bass, it's a big instrument that should be recorded from some distance in order to record the whole instrument. So you might put it in the vocal booth, but the band doesn't like that nor does the bassplayer. So you decide to put them all together in one room. And indeed the Beyer M88 is a nice mic for the job, but it's a front adressed microfone that points up when put with some foam into the bridge.

So the best you can do is putting a side adressed mic into the bridge and when you're on a budget, the SP B1 is near perfect, use a high pass filter to avoid boomyness because the proximity will be huge, but the little amount of bleed will make your day. Point the mic a little to the F-hole on the G string side.

The other problem with jazz is the trumpet, a ribbon can do wonderful things here, but a Sennheiser MD441 will make you very happy as well.

A MD421 on T-bone will do the job quite good and a neutral LDC will do quite well on reeds.

I hope this will help you.

Peace, Han

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Han

And indeed the Beyer M88 is a nice mic for the job, but it's a front adressed microfone that points up when put with some foam into the bridge.

True. It has to go on a stand and point at the bass. I find it less sensitive than condenser mics and therefore less prone to picking up as much bleed from the drums, etc.

If you have total isolation, an omni mic wrapped in foam in the tail piece (or bridge, which I prefer) will work well. I have an Earthworks TC20 that works well for that. I was hoping to be able to use it for live recording, but it picks up everything. I either need to sell it or get another and have a pair of omni overheads.

[bigtoe]

"And indeed the Beyer M88 is a nice mic for the job, but it's a front adressed microfone that points up when put with some foam into the bridge."


this actually worked quite well for me with a 451 ck1 (cardioid). pointing up but still got a very useable sound. it may depend on the mic how well it works. i wish i had a good bidirectional (side address) for this though.

i've got a rockabilly thing this weekend...upright and crackin' drums in the same room!

Peace

Mike

[Han]

The M88 is a hyper cardioid with it's proximity of course, but it has a very nice off axis response. Most Beyer mics have a nice OAR, the M201, the M160/260. I don't know why but I guess it's a Beyer secret, making hypers with very nice OAR.