API vs Neotek vs GML (tehehe)

[dr.colossus]

I'm a little giddy about writing this, but were looking at hiring some high end pres for a tracking sessionwe have coming up. There is not too much out there in Melbourne and my options are pretty much limited to

GML 4 x Pre
Neotek (only two channel)
API x 4

I am after four channels, and the cheapest option is to go for one box with four pre's, wer'e only hiring the unit for two days. Anyway, I am not really sure of the model numbers yet, and being that its 9am on a Sunday morning (yes I live in the future), I can;t really call these places right now to find out!

Wer'e going for a fairly dry and punchy sound. Kind of a clean garage rock thing. The pre will be used for everything except snare. Songs will have a maximum track count of 8, so I'm not really worried about using just one type of pre.

Anyway, I have no idea what these pre's sound like! I hate using those musically descriptive terms, but punchy/focused (albinish) comes to mind, as apposed to warm. The main vocals are going to be mostly tracked with a Shure 545... Thats all I can think of really.

Either way I think any of them would sound fantastic, I just have no idea which would be best for my situation.

[xstatic]

I would easily go with the API. Great, classic, rock sounding preamps. IThe GML's would also be awesome, but in my opinion really need to be used in a great room with the rest of the signal chain being awesome since they are really smooth and open. Basically, they won't do much to help your tracks out, but will definately reveal the weknesses anywhere in the signal chain I love the Neotek stuff as well, but in my opinion they just don't compare to the other choices

[dr.colossus]

Well the Neotek is considerably cheaper, but only two channels. By the sounds of things the GML's would be a bad move, our room isn't perfect, but we know it. What are the 'characteristics' of the Neotek stuff?

Reading posts about the API stuff, it kinda sounds like its what we're after.

[NL5]

I would rent some good mics and converters as well. In fact, I would do that before renting a preamp, but that's just me........

[dr.colossus]

The problem with hiring a whole heap of stuff is that it starts becoming nearly cheaper to hire out a studio!

I am confident that the mics I have will serve me well for the type of music I'm doing... SP B1/B3 for oh 545 for snare, guitar, and vocals (the yelling loud talking type), the B3 for more harmonious vocals (which there are few of) an At25 for the kick and Sennheiser 602 for the bass.

As for convertors, I am using my trusty Adat, I will be mixing the gear in analog with no editing (hopefully on a trident). But at present I am stuck with my TL Audio Fatman as my only "real pre" then I can use either a board full of yamaha MG's or Souncraft Folio's

So I've decided that the pre 's are my weakest link.

[bigtoe]

Originally Posted by dr.colossus

As for convertors, I am using my trusty Adat, I will be mixing the gear in analog with no editing (hopefully on a trident). But at present I am stuck with my TL Audio Fatman as my only "real pre" then I can use either a board full of yamaha MG's or Souncraft Folio's

thinking out loud - the openness and cleanliness seems to be what you're lacking with your current set up...a clean pre like the GML may give ya more options...

i have api's and find them cool but in compromising situations my hardy's (open/clean) went a long way at making the mackie / da38 mixes sound their best...without even trying!

Mike

[xstatic]

I understand exactly what Mike is saying here. Quick question though, have you ever used a GML preamp? Personally, I don't really even consider the Hardy's to be all that clean of a preamp. More of a "neutral" sound. They don't really help you or hurt you. The GML is a very revealing sound. To me the GML is kind of a Martech or Millenia type revealing sound. Hardy's to me can be used to sort of add a little snazz to a track, but still maintain a more relaxed feel. API can be used to add alot of "aggessiveness" and a good mid range punch. The GML however is going to really just open things up. It will do an excellent job at revealing things like your microphones, your placement, your room, your conversion etc... Personally, preamps liek that are awesome to have, but also need to be used a little more cautiously than other preamps we all might have.

[dr.colossus]

I don;t think that question is directed at me, but the answer is no. The best pre I've actully used is TLA ivory stuff. In fact that was all I was initially hoping to hire, but it appears that where I live its all or nothing!

[giraffe]

don't know much about those, but Albini praises the Neotek highly.
for whatever that means.

[Reggie]

I don't think you can go wrong with the API. They are constantly in use just for this kind of purpose all the time. For rockin stuff, I would take a rack of API's over a rack of Johny Hardy-type pres almost every time. Although in a perfect world, you could have both to use for different things. I don't guess you have a 1272 available do you? Those are rad for snare, kick, guitars, vox, etc.

[bigtoe]

xstatic - i have never heard the GML - i was just going on a clean v. colored thing i hear with the API v hardy - but i agree.

your advice is right on.

reg- i'll take hardy's on most anything anyday over the 312's. perhaps i need to upgrade to the jensen transformer on the 312's....they don't thrill me but you know - i'm kinda a dumbarse.

hrm.

long live HR.com!

Mike

[Reggie]

Meh, different strokes. To be fair, what I call my experience with API's are actually the SCA clone stuff. Maybe they just have better mojo than the real thing.

John Hardy = The Man (not in a corporate sense, you know what I mean)

[bigtoe]

john hardy is the man! that is one cool dude.

and when you get to that level of products - it's all good...it's just how ya use it. i some times think i just wasn't exposed to api stuff early on enough...so it didn't become apart of my thing.

Mike

[xstatic]

Personally, API's are some of absolute favorite preamps, but then they also really suit my specific style and taste. I like fast aggressive punchy preamps, while other people seem to really like the slow and oversmoothed (in my opinion) Avalon sound. I would actually prefer to have an API console with some additional outboard pres like Neves than have a Neve console with some API outboard. In fact, there is still a big part of me that wants to sell my D&R so I can buy a Sony MXP since they are really easy to load with API and Hardy preamps and API EQ's. Man, if they came out with a somewhat affordable Neve EQ drop in for the Sony console I would probably sell everything else and go for the Sony console.

As far as Neotek and Albini goes... I would guess that he probably has a Neotek console. I seriously considered having Mike Stoika build me a Neotek bt the deal I got on my D&R was one I just could not pass up. Personally, I really like the Neotek stuff, but I would not really consider it at the level of API or GML. Are the rental Neotek stuff preamps or actual channel strips? I am not really aware of people racking Neotek preamps only because they are so similar to the Sytek sound (basically a Neotek preamp without all of the additional electronics of an outboard console which really does affect the sound). The Neotek EQ's are pretty cool though. Not to aggressive with a very smooth and warm sound. Almost like they have a wide and gentle "Q". If the Rental Neoteks are channel strips, I would consider those instead of the GML's, but would probably still take 4 channels of API over 2 channels of Neotek. Hope that helps some